The Congressional Globe, Volume 13, Part 1: Twenty-Eighth Congress, First Session Page: 26

26
CONGRESSIONAL GLOBE.
not either question or decide it. They did not give
each other certificates of election; but they were re-
ceived from the Governors of the several States, and
they were not then to decide whether there had been
any nullification or not; but, great as was the dispari-
ty between him and the gentleman from New York,
as men and as lawyers, he there declared that he
was eager to enter the lists with that gentleman, to
show mat there had been no nullification either on
the part of the House or of the States. If, however,
that gentleman could satisfy him that Congress had
passed a law; that it was an operative la'wr; that it
was a perfect user of power, he (Mr. W.) would
-admit to that gentleman that it was a permanent
power; he would admit that Congress might
make laws to alter the time and place and manner of
holding elections; and if the gentleman would show
him that such an act had been done as would amount
to nullification, he pledged himself to go with the
gentleman from New York; but he would not do it
m this initiatory proceeding, for they had taken no
proceeding, ana not even the law ana the testimony
were before tlem. He knew no difference between
the broad seal of New Hampshire and the broad seal
of New York; and he should treat them as the same
until such matter of fact and of law had been report-
ed to him,as a judge of the qualifications and returns
of members, as would call for another decision. He
would, however, intimate that the gentleman from
New York had brought all this trouble upon him-
self, possibly to prejudice the case. "Why else had
lie thus proceeded until the Committee of Elections
had reported, and this House was shown that the
members from New Hampshire were elected con-
trary to the statute ? As yet the House had taken
no step except to recognise the sacred principle—
one which he knew would be held sacred there—that
of the authority of the broad seal of a sovereign
State of tliis Union. He (Mr. W.) was fully pre-
pared to go into the debate 011 the questions which
this case involved; but this was not the fitting time.
But with respect to the admission of the protest 011
the journal, he had no manner of care about it. The
true question, he would state, was one which the
Speaker had overruled; but probably the gentle-
man from New York desired to make a noise before
the world, and to agitate a little for party purposes,
and hence the more to journalize his protest; and if
it would be any gratification to him, lie (Mr. W.)
was not anxious to deprive liini of that gratification.
Mr. G. DAVIS said, in his judgment, the present
question involved one of the most important princi-
ples which had arisen in the course of the whole
discussion. The gentleman from New York had
presented to the House a resolution, in which he had
incorporated the protest, which became, by that in-
corporation, a part of the resolution itself; as much
so as the words which preceded the introduction of
the protest. The motion of the gentleman from
Maine, then, was, in effect, to expunge a part of the
resolution offered by the gentleman from New
York.
Mr. THOMPSON said he thought the gentleman
was somewhat mistaken. That question had already
been disposed of.
Mr. G. DAVIS said that did not alter the ease,
because the record was still to be made up,presenting
the resolution of the gentleman from New York;
and to present it entire, it must embody the protest.
What was the proposition of the gentleman from
Maine ? It was to expunge the protest, wherever,
in making up the journal, it might be presented.
This was very important; for, in his opinion, it was
as proper for the gentleman to make the protest a
part of the resolution, as to make his own words a
part of it. What would be the effect then' The effect
would be to place upon the journal the very paper
which was embodied in the resolution, and which
gentlemen seemed so anxious to get rid of. A mem-
ber had a right, unquestionably, to present to the
House a resolution m any shape he pleased; and if
one-fifth of the members of the House sustain the
proposition, it must go upon the journal ill the shape
in which it was presented. And the House could
not, without a violation of the provisions of the Con-
stitution, order otherwise. Suppose it were in the
power of the House to expunge a part of a resolu-
tion: they might, by that means, change a resolution,
which was intended to be in negative terms, into af-
firmative. Let gentlemen pause a moment, and look
at the consequences before they consent 10 intro-
duce such a principle as this.
Mr. CLINGMAN, of North Carolina, said he
did not intend to trouble the House, except in ref-
erence to a portion of the remarks of the gentleman
from Virginia, which, he thought, were calculated
to do injustice to the gentleman from New Yore, as
well as to those gentlemen who had signed the pro-
test. The gentleman from Virginia had insisted that
the'position which they had taken upon this occasion
was inconsistent with that which they had taken in
the New Jersey case four years ago. But there was a
broad distinction between the two cases, which the
gentleman had overlooked. In that case, there was
an existing law authorizing the election of members,
and authorizing the Governor of the State to give
certificates. I11 other words, it was a question of
fact, to be determined by the examination of evi-
dence.
The law of New Hampshire regulating the return
of members was a public law, and consequently
presumed to be known, and requiring no proof to be
adduced regarding it to members of this House, sit-
in their judicial capacity; and they were well
aware that there was no law in New Hampshire re-
quiring; the election to be made by districts. But the
gentleman from Virginia, wishing to get out of the
difficulty, contended that there was no House.
Mr. WISE interposed, and said, his first position
was, that the members were not sworn; and next,
that the House was not organized by the election of
a Speaker and other officers.
After some further remarks from Messrs. WISE
and CLINGMAN,
On motion of Mr. WISE, the previous question
was demanded, and carried in the affirmative.
The question having been thus disposed of—
Mr. CAMPBELL insisted that his motion to
amend the journal was next in order.
The CHAIR decided against Mr. Campbell's
proposition;
And from that decision Mr, CAMPBELL ap-
pealed to the House.
Mr. CAMPBELL appealed from the decision of
the Speaker.
Mr. CAVE JOHNSON observed that there was
another important question, which must necessa-
rily lead to further debate, tie therefore thought it
best to postpone the matter altogether, and take up
the resolution relating to the rules and orders of the
House. He moved to lay the subject on the table,
for the purpose of taking up that resolution; but
Mr. Campbell's appeal being yet pending,
Mr. HOPKINS moved to lay tiie appeal and the
whole subject collectively on the table.
Mr. CAMPBELL withdrew his appeal.
_ Mr. CAVE JOHNSON now submitted his mo-
tion to postpone the question, for the purpose of
taking up the resolution in relation to the rules and
orders of the House.
Mr. CAMPBELL inquired if the question under
debate was not a privileged question^
The SPEAKER was not distinctly heard by the
the reporter, but was understood to say that the
motion pending was not involved in the question of
privilege.
Mr. HOPKINS asked if the motion to hiy on
the table prevailed, would it not leave the paper
which formed the subject of controversy, still on
the journal?
T^he SPEAKER trephed that it would.
The main question being demanded, it was de-
cided that it should be put.
So the proposition to strike out the protest from
thejoumal of the House, being the question, and the
yeas and nays being called for and ordered, it was
decided in the affirmative—yeas 92, nays 82, as fol-
lows:
YEAS—Messrs. Anderson, Atkinson, Belser, Benton
Bidlack, James A. Black, Blackwell, Bossier, Bower, Bow-
lm, Bovd, Jacob Bnnkei'hoft', Aaron V. Brow21, Burke,
Burf, Caldwell, Catlin, Augustus A. Chapman, Chappell,
Clinton. Cobb, Coles, Cullom, Daniel. John W. Davis, Daw-
son, Dean. Dillingham, Douglass, Dromgoole, Duncan,
Dunlap, RiCklin, French, Bj ram Gieen, Hale, Hamlin,
Haralson, Herrick. Hoge, Hopkins, Houston, Hubard, I-lub-
bellj Hughes, Hungerford, Jameson, Cave Johnson, George
W. Jones, Kennedy, Pieston King, Labranche, Leonard,
Lucas, Lumpkm, McCauslen, JVlaclaj, McClcrnand, Mc-
Connell, McDowell, McKay,-Mathews, Moore, Joseph Mor-
ris, Murphy, Norris, Payne. Emery D. Potter, Prati, Purdy,
Reding. llelle, Hitter, Robmson, Russell. St. John, Thomas
H, Seymour, Simons, Simpson, John T. Smith, Thomas
Smith, Robert Smith, Steenrod, btetson, John fetewait,
Stiles, Stone, Strong. Taylor, Thompson, Weiler, Went-
worth, Williams, and Yost—92
NAYS—Messrs. Adams, Ashe. Barringer, Barnard, Beards-
ley, James Black, Milton Brown, Jeremiah Brown, Buffing-
ton, Campbell, Caiy, Cartoll, Chilton, Clingman. Coilamer,
Cranston, Garrett Davi>:, Richard D. Davis, Debcrry, JJelief,
Dickey, Dickinson, Jtlmer. Farlee, Fish, Florence, Foot,
Giddmgs, Gilmer. Willis Green, Grmnell, Gridcr, Hardin,
Ilarpcr. Henley, Holmes, Hudson, W. Hunt, J. £. iJunt,
Chas. J. Ingerr«oll. Jos R (ngersoll,* Jenks. P. B. Joh icon,
Andiew Johnson, D. P. King. Kiikpairick, McClellan, Mcil-
vaine, Edward J. Morris, Moscley, Nes, Newton, Owen,
Parmenter, Patterson, Peyton, Phoenix, Ramsey, Rayner,
Charles M. Read, David S. Reid, Rogers, Sample, Schenck,
Sentcr, Severance, David L. Seymour, Albert Smith, Ste-
phens, Andrew Stewart, Sykes, Thomasson, Tibbatts, Til-
den Tyler, Vance, Vanmeter, Vinton. White, Wilkins,
Winthrop, Wise, Woodward, William Wright, and Joseph
A. Wright—82.
Mr. CAMPBELL now moved to amend the jour-
nal, by inserting a resolution which he forwarded
to the Clerk's table, where it was read, as follows:
Resolved, That the Journal of Monday, the 4th of Decem-
ber, be amended, by inserting the following resolution,
which was off ered by Mr. Campbell of South Carolina, im-
mediately after the name of Mr Bckke of New Hampshire,
had been called, and which, after some discussion, and re.
peated attempts to get before the House by general consent,
lie withdrew:
''Resolved, That the Representatives elect of the Con-
gress of the United States, now assembled, by general cou
sent will proceed, through the acting Clerk, to call the
names of gentlemen whose right to seats are not disputed
for want of compliance with the provisions of an act entitled
'An act for the apportionment of Representatives among the
several States according to the 6th census,'approved June
25th. 1842: and after the names of such members elect are
called, and a quorum is formed, and before they proceed to
elect a Speaker, or other officer, they shall hear and decide
upon all the seats of said gentlemen in the House of Repre-
sentatives. under the Constitution and laws of the United
States, and the laws and constitutions of the respective
States.''
Mr. THOMPSON objected to this resolution, as
not being m order, after the decision just made by
the House.
The SPEAKER sustained the objection.
Mr. CAMPBELL contended that it was a new
proposition, and in order.
The SPEAKER considered it substantially not a
new proposition.
Mr. CAMPBELL made a few more remarks in
support of hb view that it was a new proposi-
tion.
The Speaker's decision, however, prevailed;
and the resolution was not entertained.
Mr. TIBBATTS offered the following resolu-
tions;
Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be directed
to communicate to the House of Representatives all the in-
formation which may be in his pov er or possession rela-
tive to the imposition of tolls, and the annual amounts col-
lected, on all &oj U of vessels, empty light, or heavily laden,
on the Louisville and Poitland canal, from the opening of
the same to the present time; and the general expense at*
tending the canal. Also, the annual amount of dividends
belonging to the United States. Also, the number of shares
held m said canal stock by the United States, and the
amount paid upon them. Also, the number of vessels of all
kinds which have passed through the said canal annually
since it was opened. Also, whether the said canal is com
plctely finished, and put into a condition to pass through
vessels of all classes navigating the Western waters in the
shortest time practicable.
Revolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury he directed
to address proper queries to the surve> ors of the ports at
Cincinnati, Louisville, and St. Louis, to be answered by
themselves, and also to be communicated to the steamboat
captains generally, in relation to the effect of the tolls on
the said canal, and the amount thereof, on their respective
vessels for each time they pass through, and the aggregate
amount for the season, or a yeai, and the amount of the
tolls paid to the canal, compared with the profits cleared by
the boat; with an estimate of the amount of tolls which a
regular trader of a^tven tonnage between Cincinnati or
Louisville, and St. iWiis or New Orleans, would pay in the
number of years that such steamer would last, .supposing
her to continue in the same trade as long as fit for service;
also, a comparative estimate of such aggregate tolls, with
the original cost ol the vessel; and a further comparative
estimate of such tolls, with the other expenses incident to
the running of the steamboat.
Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be directed
to ascertain whether the rights; of private corporators in
the Louisville and Portland Canal company can be purchased
b> the Government of the United States; and if so, at what
cost per share. Also, whether the obstructions to the navi-
gation of the Ohio river at Louisville can he removed by an
improvement to the falls, without injury to the port of
Louisville-, and if so. at what cost. Also, whether another
canal is practicable at the Falls of the Ohio on the northern
lank, and if so, at what cost it could be constructed.
The SPEAKER observed that the motion to
take up the resolution in relation to the rules and or-
ders of the House had now precedence of all other
business.
Mr. TIBBATTS did not then press his resolutions,
Mr. CAVE JOHNSON and Mr. DROMGOOLE
made a few remarks with regard to a motion of the
former to take up the resolution in relation to the rules
and orders of the House not being necessary; when
The^CLERK read fiom the journal the proceed-
ings ot Monday in relation to the rules and orders
of the House.
Mr. DROMGOLE moved further to amend the
resolution as follows:
'"It shall not hem order for any member, under cover of
a proposition to coirect the journal, to move to spread on
j the journal any paper or document which the House has
i previously lefubod to leceive or hear read.