Today is Thursday, 16 October 1997. I'm on the
island of Rota and I'm interviewing Joe Mundo.
The interviewer is Bruce Petty.
What are your earliest recollections living on Rota?
Thinking back, how far back can you go and what
do you remember?
Well, since I was a little boy, before I go to
school in Japanese, before I enrolled there,
I was already in my father's farm. I remember
helping him most of the time there.
then some farming. Later school began and I
enrolled in the Japanese school.
The Japanese school, were Japanese? Japanese
and local also, but at that time it was
separate, Chamorro and the Japanese, in a
different area where the school came.
I think that time we had the school in the
Tachak area, it's for the local people, for the Chamorro.
Where's the Tachak?
The Tachak is like the old village before you
come here in the Son Son.
Okay, north?
Yeah, north, yeah. And then the Japanese, they
were here in Son Son.
So I attained that from 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grade.
So, at that time, maybe, I don't remember
exactly of the date of that, when the war came
over, how was it begun, but all I remember, at
that time, I was at my farm again with other friends.
We were catching coconut crab somewhere there
close to our farm, to our ranch.
All of a sudden, after we came out of the
Booney, out of the jungle, where we were hunting
for coconut crab, I saw this American plane and
they were very high in the sky.
So I remember very well when we came out of there,
the sound of the aircraft was very different
from the Japanese aircraft at the time.
So one of my friends remembered
that there was a broken bottle, you know.
So we took that broken bottle, and we tried to
look it up.
When we looked it up, I saw the star on the airplane.
I said, oh, that is an American airplane.
America. So we both, you know, kind of running
from that place and running down to the direction
where my rents, you know, where I was. I was
there. We were running down in that direction.
Then we met one of these guys, I think he's a,
I think Japanese or some kind of Korean
farmers that are staying there in our place.
I think he's going our direction.
If I'm going to run away from there,
maybe he already noticed that there was an airplane
coming in from America, from the United States,
probably, but we didn't know whether that was a war.
I didn't know about that.
So I keep running, running, and then I say,
what's going on?
You don't know that probably there's a war
coming up, and I said, oh yeah, you know,
the sound, I heard a noise, you know,
it's like a machine gun, you know.
It was playing with the direction to the air base.
That's where Sinopoli is located.
Mm-Hmm, right.
Well, I hear some noise, some kind of a gun,
you know, it's like a machine gun.
I didn't hear any bomb, you know.
Machine gun, like, you know, sound, huh?
And it's in your head.
So I was wondering if that thing was going to
happen, so I ran down again to the Sonson.
I wanted to touch it, you know, where we live.
So I ran down to where I see my mother and my father.
So I got caught up with the distance again.
I saw the plane, you know, circling around,
and then probably it's going in the direction
down here where the Sonson,
located where all the commercial buildings were here.
and probably the pier, and that was the time I
hear big noise, you know,
the bombs, you know, and they're, you know,
heavy noise.
So, oh my goodness, and then a lot of
airplanes, not only three airplanes,
more than probably a dozen, they keep shuffling
around, you know, the islands.
I kind of, you know, I was kind of scared and
worried about what is this,
and then I don't see my mother and my father
that time.
So, keep running down.
I met one of the guy, he's an Okinawan, one of
my uncle,
who was used to cut some kind of, you know,
log and make a lumber, that was his business at
the time.
It's very funny.
He's coming up with his spear gun.
And the spear gun, when I look at it,
it's only for fishing.
And I remember very well,
because there was another lady coming to the direction
where I was standing there talking with this
old man
and says, where are you guys going?
And I said, we are going to see my mother
or something like that.
And he says, you know, you're very young.
You know, this guy talked to this young lady
and says, you're very young and you're gonna
waste your life
because it's very funny with that story, you know.
very, very young and when these American people
comes in,
you maybe give him them and they are big
people, you know?
They're very big people and maybe they gonna
get you.
Then you see my spear gun, you know?
He tried to demonstrate to this young lady.
And said, if the American come in here,
I'm gonna punch you with this, you know, this
spear gun.
They said, I keep wondering,
because I, you know, I was still a boy, you know,
and I don't know any experience about war.
I said, what are you going to do about poking a person
like that?
They say, yeah, because he's American, no good.
The way they talk, you know,
you know, during war problems, they use those
kind of words.
So this lady says to him, nevermind that.
I'm not worried about that.
We have to look for a place where we're going
to hide.
So at that time, continued to look for my mother
and my father.
They were probably somewhere, I used to see
them, maybe my father somewhere, or some of my
mother at the time.
We kind of miss each other where we are.
So that evening, I noticed that on the same
day, same evening, the rosary was held there in
the church, in the pachuk.
It's kind of probably praying for peace and
something like that.
And I came out of that, after that rosary, you
know, ceremony like that inside the church.
We were almost probably 6:30, it's almost
sundown, you know.
So I saw a guy standing there, and I just
looked toward the direction of the hillside,
and then down the hill.
There was a road there.
So he was smoking, and I was facing up like
that, and he was facing down this way.
So I was talking to him and then coincidentally
the airplane passing again on the direction
on the left side, when he was facing down, he
was on the left side, I'm on the right side.
So he said to me, to this guy, one of the guy
there, probably came from the church also,
but he was standing there.
And this was the story took place, it's kind of
interesting, you know, and kind of sad,
you know.
He said to me a few words that I couldn't
remember much.
He says, I think there's a war coming up
and we have to look for some kind of a cave
or some place where we're gonna hide.
Then I was talking to him, you watch out
because there's a plane going already.
They might throw us a bomb or something like that,
or maybe these American people may expect the church
because they're gonna see that there's a cross
in there.
We're talking about God, not fighting.
So the guy, he was smoking at the time
And this kelpetai just all of a sudden appeared
from the hill, you know, going down the direction
where we stood up, you know, standing there.
So all of a sudden this guy came in and pulled
out the cigarette, you know, from his mouth
and then he smashed it down the ground.
For a little while, I was wondering what he was
going to do and then he pulled his neck
like this and pulled him up, you know, pulled
it out of my standing there, where I was standing.
he was disappeared. The next day, all I
remember, he was, uh, you know, cut his, uh,
probably neck,
kill him right there and, uh, somewhere, they
took him somewhere and they kill him.
Did you see the body?
I never seen, but I, I noticed that, I heard
that he was killed right there by the,
you see these two houses where you coming down
from, uh, Sinapao, there's a two house before
you come here and so on, so on, on the left
side when you're going down, there are two nice house
Okay. That place somewhere after you pass this
one house inside on that area I think, I don't
know what's the name of the place but I think I
remember somebody told me that they make him
dig the hole and they cut his urn and throw him
down that hole
Do you know his name?
His name, I think, Bonifacio, Bonifacio
Esteves, I think the name.
Bonifacio Esteves.
I think that's his name, Bonifacio Esteves.
That's what I, that's what they call him.
Anyway, after that disappeared, I never see him
no more.
Later, we moved to, from that time, everything,
people scattered, moving toward different
direction to hide.
So my mother and my father and we were
approaching to the highest mountain area where
there was,
you know, there's a cave inside in there, and
deep enough to hide, and enough space
to hide there where the plane probably cannot
see you at the time.
Is this above San Antonio?
Yeah, above there.
You can see that it's like a house there, you
know, white facing down there.
When you're passing on the street and you look
up on that mountain when you reach that
actual park, and you look that way in the
opposite direction, you can see it's like
a house, you know, white Wall, stone.
You can see on the far distance from there, it
looks like a chapel, like a house if you
house if you look up that day so that's where
where we hide on the first place we stay there
so later I remember that uh when we lived there
we were kind of uh worried how to get
foods and uh waters you know supplies because
no faucet no water supply at the time
and the food nothing to eat at the time so my
father kind of worry you know my
mother and then from there I went to survey on
you know the farm area I can
see things find something to eat so my first
target was that time was it's a
Mango season. So I went to those mangoes,
picked it up, and then I picked up those mangoes,
trying to bring it to the area where my mother
lived and my father and my sister at the time.
So I couldn't do that because of, it's kind of
continue heavy on those aircraft back and forth
and it's heavy to carry from the distance where
I picked up those mangoes to the destination
point, where we're hiding, it's kind of uphill,
you know.
And the planes were attacking?
Plane, yeah. Keep bombing and, you know,
machine guns, all noise I hear like that kind.
So I keep running somewhere and all of a sudden
I met one guy again.
And then we invite each other to go to another direction,
rather than go to where my father and my mother is.
You know his name?
I think his name is Sebastian, but San Nicolás.
So we went in the wrong direction, the wrong
place where we were supposed to meet my father
and my mother at the time, instead of going
back to the place where they were going to hide.
So nothing to eat, nothing to drink again in
that place, no water, no nothing.
So we slept that night with this guy and then
we were worried because we don't see nobody
when we wake up.
So all I did when I looked at it, I saw papaya,
you know, this wild papaya, it was ripe already
and then I saw some loose cows, the fence was
already destroyed probably with the bombs.
So the cows, you know, just kind of scattered around.
And then I look at the cow and try to imagine
what I'm going to do with no food,
with no papaya, what I'm going to eat.
No rice, no nothing.
Kind of hungry.
So this guy is very funny.
He went to that cow, you know?
And this cow got a milk, you know?
It's a big milk.
You can probably squeeze that milk.
And then he didn't squeeze it.
He just go over there and he hold it with a hand
trying to suck it with his tongue, with the
milk. So I was wondering maybe he's
gonna have a bowel or something crazy because
he's got the milk. So me, instead
of I did that, I took a piece of, you know,
some kind of a wild tree. There's a big
leaf on the ground. I'm trying to make that
like a fung. Take it under that cow and
and then try to squeeze the milk out, and from
there drink. Network.
Yeah, the milk, so I drink that,
so I got a little bit, I mean, restraint,
you know, a little power.
So we start to talk and discuss about where
we're going.
Why don't we go and go back and check our parents?
So I said, where's our parents?
They said, I don't know,
they, last time we, I remember that hill over there.
They said, why don't we go first,
and maybe they might switch over
from that hill to another place, to a new place.
That's too far.
I said, okay, so let's try.
So when we're approaching that area, he was right.
My mother and my father and several other,
you know, relatives moved to that direction.
And they live there because it's very close
to their bananas.
You know, they have bananas around in that cave.
It's a plant, it was planted by probably some relative.
So they can probably, when the banana ready to eat,
they can eat those.
So we went there, all of a sudden there was a
surprise and worry, both our parents were worried.
So my mother kind of whipped me at the time, or
my father, because maybe a combination of
feeling they had it there is that maybe sorry
and maybe worried.
So don't want to whip me, or anything like that.
I remember my mother called my uncle and said,
why don't you whip these two, so that the next
time they're not supposed to turn loose.
especially dangerous time when they are going
around here and we never know
whether they die or what happened to them. We
kind of worry, son. My uncle came in and said,
I'll give you a whip for two, and if you touch,
if they give you one,
then you're going to get three. If you what? If
you touch it, you know, after he whip you one,
and then you touch it. Oh, if you touch your
butt. Yeah, your butt, you're going to give us three.
It's funny, this guy, before he was smart, you
know, he took his grandmother's, I think some
kind of, you know, an old cloth and put it
behind his back. Sebastian?
Yeah, Sebastian. And I never did that, you know.
He did it, so, when he got whipped, he never
feel anything, but I, first I got the whip, but
I almost touched it, you know, on the back.
Then when he's turned, he never feel it, it's
like that, you know, some kind of, like the
air blows, like that, you know, and I told my
uncle it's not fair because he got some
kind of covered on the butts and I got nothing
and I feel so painful now, that was the thing,
he got cleaved.
So it's very funny, something is funny there.
So after that we learned our lesson not to go
far away from the Iraq if we have to stay near
to them.
What was your uncle's name?
Rafael, he died already.
Rafael Atalic.
So, after we've been staying there for a little
while, I think there are some moves, some
changes that the Japanese soldiers came over
and tried to order the people who live there to
move, to evacuate to some other area where
they're going to combine the, you know, the
Samoan people, you know, where they're staying
there, they want to put into an area where
they're going to, they can find them.
So from there they moved to another place
again, they named it Sakalza area, S-A-K-A-J-A,
Sakalza, they moved to that area.
Whereabouts is that located now?
before the one where she get talking about that
where they call it Apulu, as Apulu they call it.
Okay, is that like in the middle of the island?
Like a valley, yeah, it stay on that, it's a
north area.
You see that potato beach where they got this
Japanese student going there for picnic there,
when you went up to Sinapaua Hills on the left side.
Oh yeah, okay.
You see that there, stay past the Rota Hotel on
the right, okay that hill on that side, call it
as Apulu there, connected with Ma'abu, they
call it Ma'abu, as Ma'abu.
So my parents and mostly people lived there,
they evacuated, they moved to another place
where the Japanese instruct them to go away
from there, because the Japanese were going to
use that place, the soldiers were going to use
that place.
So, from there, we moved to that direction.
There, we stuck ourselves there inside that place.
So, we find a lot of people there now that I
never see right after the plane came over and
mixed up the whole, you know, noise and everything.
After the, everything just appears, some of
your relatives, your close relatives and your friends.
That are there where you don't see because they
hide in different directions.
So there they try to combine them all and they
try to see who's the guy that's gonna run the
people, you know, gonna take care of the people.
They named this guy, I think, one of the head
of the Japanese interpreters or something, I
don't know what they call it.
Is that Chamorro?
Chamorro, they use some Chamorro, and there's a
Japanese also there, a civilian.
Do you remember their name?
They put us in charge for that, like a
community, you know, like people who live in
that area.
Do you remember their names, the Chamorro?
The Chamorro I remember, one is my father, also
Rodolfo is one of them, and then Seraphim, his
cousin, Atalic at the time.
Seraphim, Atalic?
and there was another guy, Pedro Cepeda, like
that, who were in charge with the local people
there, and they call it hiding area.
And they put this one Japanese, it's like a
councilman, maybe, I don't know how they name
this guy, but he's in charge for that area, you
know, where the Chamorro live in that certain area.
Do you remember his name?
I think his, call him, the only last name I
know is Yamamoto.
Yamamoto. That's the time I remember. So we
were there. It's like our town, like our
village, you know, we live there.
And every time the airplane comes in, we got a
place to hide because we got a lot of caves
around. Surrounded us with some cocoa and some
bananas and coconut trees.
Was the King family in that same area?
Well, the King's family probably is on... I
don't see the King's family at the time.
Maybe it's on the other direction. Who knows?
Maybe the site on the west side, that site there.
Because we have two separate areas, but it's a
more relief at the time.
Well, he said he was high in the mountains.
Probably somewhere there, but...
He said there was very little water.
Probably somewhere there, but I never meet the
King's at that time.
so anywhere at the time when we gathered there
and we we feel that it's like our
village no longer from the rest of the other
Chamorro we cannot see them
because we have to stuck ourselves there
because we have somebody to watch us like
this I'm talking about Yamamoto it's look like
he's in charge already if you
gonna move from that place I'm going somewhere
to pass that area you have to
have a pass you know permission to leave that
place it's like checking you when
you're going out in and out what are you going
to do and things like that so from
there they have certain kind of project going
on like they try to assign
somebody to to do some plantation of you know
agricultural plantation of sweet
potatoes, corns, anything that can be eaten
yeah staple foods they don't have
any food. So they organized that kind among
them. So they set up like a team, you know,
like shopping group, this group, you're going
to be on that leader, like a manager,
like a supervisor in the field like that. You
go with that, and then you go with this,
and then go with that. It's like divided among
the group. And maybe you plant those,
what do you call them, maybe sweet potatoes,
and then the other plants, maybe corn,
another plant something like that. So before
they do that we have to go to a place where you know
it's a good area for plantation. So I was one
of that was assigned to one of that old men
and this guy is uh his name uh Pedro Atalic
also and uh two of that person at the time
There's another one, Manuel. Manuel, I think
his last name was, I think Ajuju like. Manuel
Ajuju, I call him Tulmanite, you know. Tulmanite?
Tulmanite, yeah. In Chamorro we call him
Tulmanite, but Manuel Ajuju is his name.
I was assigned to that, and the other Chamorro,
Chamorro of my own same age, you know. Yeah.
His name Antonio.
Antonio what?
Antonio Mangloni.
The former mayor, Prudential's brother.
So we together in that group.
So always every day we have to go and cut
grass, clean some for preparation of plantation.
Clear some grass.
Yeah, clear some grass.
So we go with those group.
So after they find out that we were the
smallest, I think, and the youngest,
And they think that we're not doing any
efficient work there on the farming because we don't
have any experience about cleaning grass, you know.
So they find out maybe that we didn't do a good job.
Because we just cut those kind of things, we
don't make it good for what they want us
to do. Yeah.
We cut the grass.
Maybe rough. Yeah.
Sometimes we don't take it off, we just cut,
you know.
So the job probably we provide is not
sufficient for them and it's not good, it's not recommended.
So the old man says, and those old ladies,
maybe these two young boys may be good to
give them some kind of assignment.
Maybe we send them to catch some coconut crab
during the day, it's very funny now.
So it looked like it's a good job, that one.
So we accepted.
I said, okay, we go and hunting some coconut crab.
During the time, during the day, we go and
hunting all around here, you know.
We go to some bumi, some jungle area, where we
can find coconut crab.
And we bring it there for their food.
Oh, they're very happy.
Maybe after, maybe two, three months later,
keep doing that,
we assigned to another job.
We become what you call a guard, security, like
a security guard.
We have to watch those cones, who's coming in
and trying to take the cones away from
the plantation.
Oh, so you're guarding the field.
We're guarding the field.
So what we did, it's very interesting.
We don't have any place where we're going to,
you know, shelter ourselves.
remember there was a big mango tree that is not
far away from the cornfield. So we
climb up there and we make some kind of a, you
know, some lining up some wood, you
know, tie them for our ceiling down, you know.
Yeah, it's like a, yeah, like a
tower, you know, like a playhouse on top of the
tree. And we keep looking around and then
all we do, look also the plane, the same time
where the airplane coming from, and
they're gonna see us there. So anytime we do
that, there we go, we find one person
that picking up some corn and this was the sad
story for me and I was
disappointed because I didn't know he was my
uncle and during that time for
reason you have to go and find some food it's
not a thing to say you thief you
all your stimulants. It's a survival reason, so
I don't blame the old man. You have to go look around
and then when you see corn, naturally you have
to pick that up because when you're hungry and
survival reason you have to pick that up and
you didn't notice maybe that we are two boys
that we
got in that place. What was his name? My own
grandfather's brother, you know. What was his name?
So we report the old man, and I didn't know it
was my grandfather, you know, his brother.
So this Chamorro, you know, was so mad, you
know, and I think they punished the old man and
then they...
Who's they? Who punished them, the Japanese or
the Chamorro?
I think the Chamorro and maybe the Japanese. I
didn't see when he got punished, but my father
is the one who told my mother.
because he was one of those group, my father,
you know,
watching the Chamorro at the time there.
It's like, you know, like they're in charge
with the people there in the area.
So, my mother and my father probably told my mother
about the incident of what we did.
And then my mother, I said, son,
what did you do with my uncle?
Did you make him punish like that?
And I said, no, mom, I didn't know that, that's
his show.
my uncle and he says that's your grandfather's
brother, I said oh please I'm sorry I didn't
know that you know something like that so
forgive me for what I did to my uncle like that.
What was the punishment? Probably they whipped
him you know something like that
they never make a seat anyway so after that we
were transferred again back to another job
another assignment they give us another
supervision another man this man was
crippled man you know he got no feet no leg but
you know legless his name
Pedro so they are assignments with this guy
here see Tom his brother is very
funny this one funny and sad and the most
dramatic area that make me more
So when we were assigned in that team, we were
in that area where the sweet potatoes
plantation field.
So you were guarding still?
So no, we don't guard yet.
We were transferred to that area to clean the
grass again for preparation for plantation
of sweet potatoes.
There you go.
There you go, it's a, you know, there's an
airplane coming in and put that big light on
above the plantation field.
Maybe the American plane surprised about that
big plantation field that they see there clean
during the day.
Well, how they do during the day, that the
plane continue sometime going around, searching around.
You mean they drop flares at night?
Maybe that's fresh because it's like a big
light in the ground, you know, it's very easy.
So I keep wondering about it.
The next day, it happened like that.
We were not going out yet.
We didn't clean anything.
On that day, Tim and I went to my grandfather's farm.
and we tried to pick it up some mango, it was a
very sad time, almost a very bad part.
When we throw the mango with, you know, with
some stones up there,
those mangoes can fall down and we can suck
them, you know, and bring it to home.
I saw that, you know, Japanese signboard, but I
cannot read because it was Kanji, you know,
I didn't know whether that is, they call it
prohibited or not responsible. I cannot read that.
So in other words, there was a sign, a little
sign attached to the mango tree.
But Japanese, they told him, you know, maybe
it's a kanji. I cannot read that.
Because I was taught Katakana and Hiragana. If
that is Katakana, I can read, or hiragana, you know.
But it was Kanji, you know, those big, like a
thing like that. I didn't read that.
Because when I started the Great War, I didn't
continue the schools.
So, we already sacked them, put them in.
And this Japanese soldier walked toward the
direction where we were.
And he's a Navy people.
And he's holding some kind of wood, you know.
It's like, I don't know, cane or something.
He used to play around with that kind of thing.
What are you guys doing in here? You know, like that.
I said, well, I'm picking up a mango. This is
my grandfather's mango.
He said, there's nobody's mango. This is a
Japanese mango.
Oh, I'm sorry. That's all I know is this is my
grandfather. This is my, uh, this is our farm.
This is where I was raised. This is where I
belong to.
He said, no more. This belongs to the Japanese.
You have to ask permission.
Then he make us stand.
Coincidentally, the airplane again passing
through there, and then this Tony, Antonio.
Antonio Manglonia, my same age. He's my friend
and we go together, my cousin at the same time.
So when we stand straight, the Japanese don't
like us probably to look around.
When they're ready to stand up, you have to
watch them closely.
So I didn't look at the plane. But Tony,
probably I don't know why, he turned around,
you know,
And he tried to look, probably, maybe he kind
of worried, natural feeling probably, he got
inside and maybe worried that might throw the
machine gun or the bomb.
So I was not worried about the airplane. I was
just looking at the Japanese because I was
teached that when the Japanese talk to you, you
have to look straight in the eye.
So I looked like that, you know. And I never
tried to look at the airplane. I don't bother
that. Even something bite you, you're not
supposed to look so.
I keep standing straight, you know.
Imagine when you stand. The Japanese, they
don't scratch yourself or anything.
When you stand, you have to stand straight like
this, you know.
And then look sharp on the eye.
Right here in between the eye. You have to look there.
So Tony, when he stands, you know, the plane is
natural, you know.
Probably by mistake he looked that way.
There you go. You know, the Japanese.
There came another guy and said,
You look at this guy, take all our ear,
everything, you know, they go behind you and
keep checking you around, you know.
Kind of suspect for maybe spy.
I was wondering, I didn't know what their intention.
So I hear that he used the word Spango.
You know, Spango means Spain, Spanish.
Maybe this guy is a Spanish.
then he was right because this Tony is a kind
of a I think came from the
ancestors way back probably from Spanish you
know from Spain so he got the blood
of Spanish although his dark color if you look
at his skin but his eye probably
that they're smart you know this is this guy's
Spain Spanish let's take him and
to kill him. That was the time I was shocked.
I'm worried about myself already because I'm
alone now because they're going to take him and
kill him. So after they took him and I
asked him what are you going to do with me, for
me? He said leave Mango and go home. I
keep running, you know. Every time I come to
the point of exhaustion, I have to breathe.
again until I catch the place. So there I
reported to the mother that Antonio, your
son is already taken there and I think they're
gonna kill you. So oh the thing
happened there is I don't know what the mother
did but I think she went to some
other younger woman. I don't know this woman
what was she doing at the time. She
She wasn't married, but her name is Gisina,
they call her Gisina, they named her Gisina.
Her last name was Songao, I think Songao,
Gisina Songao at the time.
But she was young, maybe she was around 24 like
that, 25 years old.
the same lady, that's the former mayor, I mean
the mayor's now, that's the mother's sister,
Gisina's already died
So she was the one, and the mother, and the
Japanese who was in charge of that hiding
village, you know, they went to confront those Japanese
All three of them?
All three of them
So Mr. Yamamoto?
Yamamoto and the Gesina probably, and another
person, I don't know the other person.
Not the boy's mother?
Yeah, the mother reported to them and then they
went over there.
Did Antonio's mother go too?
Maybe, so I don't know for sure, I didn't see
that happening, but that was the story took
place, that they sent somebody there.
So came back late to see Antonio, so he was
very much alive, and he told me that if I
didn't do that to report to the family, maybe
it's no more because they're gonna kill me.
Probably they're waiting for the next day, few
days to investigate more about him, whether
he's doing spying or what.
I don't want that little guy like him to be a
spy, we don't know anything about those things.
Here the next thing what happened, we went back
to the world and the same other night that happened.
So the same night they put it up there again.
The flares?
Yeah, the flares. And we haven't planned nothing.
So I ran over there and some tried to hide
inside some kind of grass, you know.
Like everything after we dumped those grass
from cleaning.
Dive down there, you know.
A pile of grass?
pile of grass?
Yeah, pile of grass, yeah.
Put ourselves inside so that the plane would
not see us.
So, both of us, you know, all grass on top.
I got nothing, no shirt, not even him.
No jewelry, no nothing, no shoe.
So, I was just looking that way, that
direction, out like that.
And I didn't know there were Japanese soldiers
around, you know, watching the Chamorro,
watching us, what we were doing.
All of a sudden, we came out after the
airplane, you know, passed through, and no more light.
He called us, asked me what I was doing there.
And I said, we were hiding because we were
scared with the light and the airplane.
So all of a sudden, he told me like this,
Are you scared? And I said, yes sir, I'm scared.
I said, let's go, take it.
Tony was not taken at the time, so we were
separated at that time, maybe my turn to be
king, but I didn't know the time.
On our way there were I think 6 soldiers, I
think, I don't know how they call it, Taicho,
Taicho I think is one of the head guys.
Taicho means general?
General, yeah, so Taicho, yeah, Taicho was at
that time there.
You didn't know his name?
I don't know, I forgot his name.
All I know is the battalion name at the time,
they call it Shinkentai, you know.
I think it's an Air Force, I don't know what
Air Force do.
So I remember he hold my neck like this,
and then on our way, and then two bodyguards on
each side,
you know, and then one behind.
Like that, you know, and one in front.
And then he was holding me on the right side
like this,
and I was on the right.
And then he keep talking to me,
don't be scared, because you're not supposed to
be scared.
I say, yeah, but I don't know what's going to
be happening.
My friend back there, he says, no, we're going
to take you
and we're going to go to the place where I
stay, our place.
Then I still continue worrying until we reach
the place.
They're hiding there in a big jungle.
They've got a small little house inside there
under the trees.
And they've got this boko, they call it
man-made hole inside.
That's where they're hiding.
A hole that's in the rock?
Yeah, no, under the tunnel.
Oh, the tunnel.
Yeah, they call it Bokugo.
In Japanese, they call it Bokugo. Bokugo.
Yeah, so they hide in there.
There's some there, the soldiers, and then when
we came over there,
I saw these Japanese soldiers, they taking off
his, you know, jacket.
He was not the one taking off.
Then another person taking off his thingy.
Leg grabs. Yeah.
And then we sit down.
We got a little tatami.
It's a Japanese floor and a small table like
that, you know. Yeah.
So we're going to eat.
We call and we got the food there.
The time so come to eat here.
But it cannot be good because I'm still worried.
What's going to happen for me?
I don't know.
My mother don't know.
My father don't know.
Nobody know.
Just keep thinking what will happen to me.
And the next day,
the next day, the
next day, the next
because I'm still worrying what's going to
happen for me.
I don't know, my mother don't know, my father
don't know,
nobody knows.
Just keep thinking what will happen to me.
But the next day, they asked me like this,
I want you to stay with us and you,
all you do is show us where are the Chamos.
You're going to take us to that place
and you show us where they are.
I said, yes Sir, I said, nothing else, you
don't go over there to work, or you don't
go anywhere anymore, you're going to be with
us, I said, yes Sir, I kept saying yes sir,
because I'm scared, I said, okay, tomorrow we
go to where your mother and your father
and thing where they live, I said, yes Sir, I
took them to the place, there first I approached
my aunt, she's still alive, her name is Beata,
and Sasakura is the husband's name,
she died and then Mimbyola, the next husband,
but the maiden name was Beata Duñas,
Sasakura, when she married the Japanese. So
Beata was there, but they were shocked,
house and I say, it's my auntie there, she came
out and you know, greeted this Tai Chi, she
bowed, and all of a sudden my auntie told me
that he's a high official person, you know.
Who's a high official?
The guy, the Tai Chi.
Oh, you told your auntie?
Yeah, my auntie's the one who told me that guy
is, you know, in Japanese they call it a
Raiston, means, you know, VIP, like a...
Like general, like you're talking about, maybe
captain or commander or whatever, but he says
higher, yeah higher official, said if those
people sign something that we're going to
execute as Nishimoto, everybody's going to die,
that kind of, like the one you're talking,
maybe it's a general, so I don't know about
their ranking in all Japanese, I don't know, I
look at them all soldier look, but I don't
know, all I know maybe he's the overall,
because the way they treat him.
He's the big boss.
Yeah, big boss. And the way he plays around
with his sword, then he got a sword here.
And the rest don't have any sword, only gun.
And only him, he got this.
So maybe this guy here, he's got a gun.
Stop for just a second.
After this, maybe you can find a way to put it
all together.
So, we left the place where my aunt and proceed
to the place where, another place, you call
this place right there behind you, see that
over there, that area?
What's it called?
I think they called that place at that time, I
don't know what's the real name for that, but
at that time when I was a little boy, I think
Asmalate they called it. Asmalate.
They're a name of lands, you know, the place
where they're hiding the place.
But at that time I heard only they say
Asmalatik or some kind of like that where they
got a river and thing there.
Now, you found your aunt was your mother and father?
Yeah, we left there, yeah.
Your mother and father?
I didn't go to my father or my mother. I just
left my aunt. Maybe my auntie gonna kill my mother.
So, we went there to that place. We walked
around until we reached there.
I hear somebody, I heard somebody whistling,
you know.
It's very interesting because when I hear a
whistle, you know, I said, it's kind of a
music, you know, from a far distance.
Then I told this Taichu, I said, maybe over
here, you know, and then we went there.
So it happened that I saw that it's my uncle,
the youngest brother of my mother, and the
youngest brother.
So I said, the way I say thank you, you know,
is call him up, you know, by surprise, you
know, my uncle was surprised because how in the
world I know the place and caught up with it.
So he came out and then from there he keep bow
to the Japanese, you know, because he
because he has more experience. He learned more
about Japanese language because he went
more higher in school than me. So we keep
talking like that and then after that,
no more Chamorro. That's the only last place
we're hiding. I'm going to explain again.
We're here and then we left after he saw
everybody. He left. He saw the place where they are.
So that's where we come back to where they're
hiding the Japanese statue and his fellow soldiers.
Okay, now he was hiding where? Near here?
No, he's over there in the jungle, another area.
You see that curve when you go up to Sinampau? Yeah.
There's a curve like that. Yeah.
In that area, they call this place Asfunta.
Asfunta. Okay, and that's where his
headquarters are?
That's where the headquarters, I think that's
where they are, the house down the tree there.
And then they got the, not far from the Gulf War?
Not far from there.
It's the opposite direction.
The Gulf goes over there and not over there.
So we stay there.
So in the evening, they have a little ceremony,
I think, before the sundown.
They go out there and we try to stand and give
some kind of national algebra thing or something.
So, in the evening they have a little ceremony,
I think, before the sundown.
They go up there and we try to stand and give
some kind of national anthem,
or some kind of a ceremony.
And that's how I see this statue, you know, all
his salt, and faced the ocean,
and it's a little prayer for peace or something.
We have to try and understand it.
They sing a song, like a Japanese song, maybe flamenco.
So for this Japanese officer, were you working
for him?
Yes, it's like I'm working for nothing, it's
just being drafted up from the farming that we
are trying to plant some sweet potatoes.
What were your duties?
I just go with him, or when he told me to, you
know, sometimes they got shield, like his
shield, for example, you know, some loose kind
of, you know, there's a steel on the bottom,
steel, you know, there's some kind of rubber,
like nails, but I think protecting the rubber
or the leather.
Oh, they're like spikes and stuff.
Yeah, like spikes, you know, when they're
working, you know.
Oh, they're kind of hard nails.
So sometimes, you know, I have to carry that
through the sumika, you know, to the repair shop.
Take that and bring it down.
And when I come over there, sometimes these old
men say,
I have to make that first, the one shoe you're carrying,
because that guy is very serious.
We might be in trouble. Everybody's going to
die if we don't do that.
So let me have that first.
And then I ask these old men, how do you know?
And I said, I know, that belonged to the Tai
Cho, yeah.
You know his name?
Yeah, Santiago.
Santiago what? Manglonia.
He was a shoe repairman?
A shoemaker, yeah.
Shoe repair, yeah.
Doing the shoe repair job.
So I fixed it, then right away I returned back
to Japan.
And I even missed part of that story after that.
There was a part there that I missed it.
I know that during the coconut crab hunting, I
missed the coconut area, the space, and the
bombs again.
That time, we went to, you know, this railroad,
before there's a railroad, they usually have
this stone, you know, line up.
Oh, stone wall.
Stone wall.
You know, coconut crab hiding inside in there. Yeah.
And we have to break that off to get the coconut.
We were the first, I think, to break that stone
wall nearby the church there in Tatachu, the church.
So when we were taking that off, the airplane
came over to bomb the church.
We were there with Antonio.
The church was never bombed, only the tank.
When we were catching the coconut crab,
I don't know what happened at the time, but the
airplane saw us down.
Maybe they thought we were a soldier or
whatever, but it's very funny.
After we picking up all those coconut crap, the
plane directly from that direction coming down
like that.
Coming from north to south?
Yeah, north to south, I think like this.
So, we went down to under the big tree, you know.
They call it noon tree.
So bushy, big trees next to the church.
So we hide there, so when the plane come in and
throwing the bomb, I have to hold, you know,
you were teach to hold your ear like this and
then facing down the ground.
So we did.
So for a little while after the bomb is gone
and the plane is gone, stops, you know, all of
those things, the noise, I get up, keep
touching myself, nothing happened.
So I saw Antonio crying and saying that I'm dying.
Then I look at him closer, trying to remember
what day it is, and I see us.
How can you die? There's nothing wrong about
you. There's no blood.
Then I saw this piece of bone, you know, those
steel that after the bomb exploded?
The crack?
Yeah, the crack of that bomb shell, you know?
And I think it was on the back of his skin
right here, on the back side.
I think that is very hard.
So when I saw the thing, I picked it up, and I
feel that that was so hard.
I said, this is the one that hurting you.
Then from there, he stopped crying.
I said, Tony, you're not gonna die?
I removed it already.
Probably it came from the tree, you know?
Fall down and the heat still there, it was so hot.
So that's the one I miss on that coconut crab.
That's when you were spending three or four months
hunting coconut crab?
Yeah, that's during the hunting time.
I miss to include that on the hunting
assignment, you know?
And then we go back to the Japanese, after that
we're taken to his camp and we're staying there.
That's after we were separated.
So when we were separated that time, I don't
know, I cannot see my mother or my father.
So I have to ask permission, you know.
So I asked permission, I said, can I see my
father and my mother like that?
And they say, okay, tomorrow I can send you and
then come back again.
You have to stay with us now.
I said, yes, Sir.
So I pick up some sweet potatoes because they
have lots of sweet potatoes in there that have
been harvested and they just put aside.
So I take some and bring it to my grandmother
and my father.
I said, son, we were much worried about you,
but you're at Pitolas, but you're staying there
with the Japanese. What can we do?
Please take care of yourself and be good to
them, and maybe they're not going to kill you
or something like that.
And we can see each other again.
And I said to my mother, yes, until such time,
keep going there.
And the Japanese turned me loose about maybe
one week like that, or two weeks, it's like a vacation.
So I had to go back to my mother and my father.
They gave you a whole week?
Yeah, something like that.
And when I went back again, they asked us to
get some Chamorro people to go fishing.
So right there with the new hotel, they're
fixing now that it's a good place for fishing.
They call it Sontol. You know when you were
passing from Chinapol down this way? Yeah.
You saw on your left side the Rota Hotel? Yeah.
There's another new one there that they're
making on that side. They call it Sontol area.
So this Japanese statue, I think, sent some
message to those Chamorro who were good in fishing.
So they picked up some, maybe about 10 or 12
people, or 15 members of that group.
So what they did, it was a mine. You know, it's
a little thing like this. It's like a pad.
I think they put it out there in the ocean in
case an American ship comes over.
I think it's like a public bomb, you know?
Oh, it's a mine.
It's like a mine, yeah.
It was on the beach or in the water?
It was on the beach, on the reef. OK.
It was reef with it.
So I was wondering what they're going to do,
how they're going to catch fish, no tools, no nothing.
So I went there, the Japanese told one of the
Japanese guy
to take the battery.
They got a battery thing that's connected with
the battery.
They make a line where they plug the thing.
It's very interesting when I look at it,
when I was a little boy,
and then the things are, boom, like that, you know?
Explode one, and then after that,
a lot of fish, they're in the ocean.
So these people, they have to dive and pick
them up
and bring it there to the shop.
And you know the funniest thing?
Only the fish that you're gonna eat in the Thai shop,
maybe about one or two piece.
Just barbecue it right there.
And we cook some rice.
Then we, and then he says to just give the,
those people, the rest, and take it home.
The Chamorros?
The Chamorros, yeah, the Taichos give them
to take it all home.
They were surprised when...
He gave them the rice?
No, the fish.
Oh, the fish, okay.
All the core of the fish.
So I said, you take it home
because he wants you to take it home.
They said, are you sure that he's not gonna
take it
to the Cambo somewhere?
Or I said, he's leaving you to take it home.
So he was worried maybe because it's from my wards,
not from the Taichos.
Now what's Taicho's name? You were a little,
what's his name?
Yeah, but I don't know, I never call his name.
You know, these Japanese sometimes they don't
want you to know maybe, not even to see, but
who is who at the time.
How about Takonaga? Takonaga?
Takonaga, I don't know.
Or Takahashi?
I don't know which one of those, but I really
don't know those names at the time.
But were there any other?
I don't call them their names too at the time.
I just call them Taicho, you know.
Were there any other Chamorros working there?
No, nothing.
Just you?
Just me alone.
I was alone one whole day.
Okay. Well, besides taking his shoes to be
repaired, what else did you do for him? You
must have walked around.
Sometimes we walk around there and probably
looking around what's there. I don't want to
interfere with what's there.
But you didn't have daily assignments?
No, no, no. No daily assignments.
You just...
Nothing else. He's just accompanying me. Really?
Wherever he went, you went?
Wherever I went, yeah.
He never told you...
I don't want to go closer. I don't know what
they're talking about. Even if they're talking
Japanese, sometimes I can't pick up the whole
thing because I was young.
Only for 3rd graders, you can't understand much
deeper language in there.
So even if they talk about war, I would never know.
So I learned nothing from there. I never
learned anything. It's just that.
And you stayed with him for the whole war?
Yeah, after that I stayed with him until the
war is over.
But basically what he wanted was for you to
take him wherever you thought was tomorrow.
Yeah, basically probably the intention is to
just take him where all the Chamorro's hiding
and whatever they're doing, they want to find
out what they're doing.
But nothing else you can see there in the
jungle where they're hiding is nothing to do
things or whatever.
So they were safe?
Yes, look, and she's satisfied probably with
what they do with each other all the time.
Now, did you have brothers and sisters at that time?
At that time, three of my brothers was, I
think, died before the war.
I mean, right on the time when the war began,
when my three brothers died.
All at the same time?
No, two, right on the beginning of the war.
How did they die?
I don't know, maybe my father, maybe from
transport from one place to another place,
moving like that, starvation maybe, starving.
But how old were they?
My brother at the time maybe was about four or
five years old.
And you had three of them? Yeah.
And they all died, but you're not really sure why?
They died, I don't know for sure because at
that time I never opened my ear about what's
happened to my brother like that.
Now you had other brothers and sisters who lived?
No, that's the only brother that died right
during the mix-up of the war.
The three?
So you're the only one left?
Yeah, I'm the only one.
And your mother and father never talked about
them after that?
I never talked about them, but all I know
probably was they were still established in
this country probably.
And that's before the Americans started bombing?
Yeah, before the Americans, they were already
probably in preparation to move, but I don't
know, maybe my father knows about something
else about war, but I never know.
Now, when the Japanese invaded Guam in 1941,
December, did you know anything about that?
No, that was the time I really remember that
invasion here, but they don't fight.
They just came in with their truck, and it was
very funny that one, because there I have a
friend named Pete.
Pete Musga, you know? He's staying in Guam.
We came from here, somewhere here, you see that
pier over there? Yeah.
And that pier, that site, the west pier over there?
Okay, if you pass that, they call it Tewksbury
Beach there, if you go further in, down, more
further down, there's a cave inside that when
the wave is big, you know, sometime it throw
inside some kind of a garbage inside in that cave.
So at that time, American ship, I think they
dumping, they were dumping apples, pears or
maybe some broken ship, somewhere probably
loose out from the ocean.
You know, the current probably taking this and
drop it inside the cave and candies, you know,
those cans and biscuit.
So, during our hunting of coconut crab, at the
time we speak, we find out that what the hell
are all these kind of food, you know.
We try to open, we try to tell each other maybe
that's a bomb.
Then we see that American word, you know, it's
written as American word, not Japanese.
Then we tell him, you open it, and then he
says, you open it.
We keep saying it's other, because we both
worry and scared about that.
But the Japanese is already just about to come
out, because I think in that time declared
peace already in Japan.
So we don't worry about it anymore, because we
heard that it's already peace, but it's
still danger, because they're still there.
So we took care of those cans and opened and
put some in my pocket, it's American candy.
Maybe if they see us there, at that time still
probably they're going to kill us because
they're going to say maybe we're spying,
they're going to ask us questions, but if they do,
we're going to tell them that it's over there
in the cave, but they didn't call us, so that
day we saw the truck, the American truck coming
in, you know, probably in the wings.
I remember when I look at this American put one
of the feet on the truck, you know, they put
down the windshield, you know, on the front.
Then you come with a nice green truck.
That was the first American you saw? Yeah.
So, after that, I saw this guy came down from
his, one of the jeep.
I don't know whether he's a general or what at
the time.
He came down and then met this Japanese, I
think that's the one you're talking about,
maybe he's the Dai Taichou, they call it, or
some kind of more higher in ranking than
the Taichou that I, I don't know, but I saw him
negotiating, I think, some kind of a small
table like this, I think, about maybe 12
inches, maybe.
It's a small table.
They put it right there on the middle of the
road where the, when you went up to that Tonga,
they call it, that, they have a Jinja, they
call that place.
A swine place.
That was right here in Sonson?
They have a swine there, yeah. Here in Sonson.
When you're going up there on the road, going
toward the direction of that telephone company there,
there was on the left side, there was a swine there.
So, before that comes to the middle part, they
put a whole table.
Like that, the Japanese and they meet with the Americans.
And all I remember, I think this Japanese took
out their flak, and then the American
Marine, I think, stick on his knife, take out
his knife, and stick it on the Japanese
flak, and like that, and then throw it down,
and like that.
That's the way I saw the action of this American.
So, at the time, I just walked away, and then
there after a few days, the American continue,
continue, you know, more coming inside.
So then nobody speak English.
So I remember saying, Joe, that's the first
English name I remember, Joe.
And keep giving me signal, you know, like that.
So I look at him, I say, my goodness,
they're gonna shoot me or what,
because they got the gun and everything, you know.
Then I see him swing up, I remember that.
You know, you must say, American is very funny.
Hey, Joe, sabe puss-puss?
Like that, you know, and then,
This is a funny one. Push-push.
Then I gave him signal to follow me for
push-push, you know?
So I took them to my uncle, to my aunt,
to prepare the push-push.
Push-push in our language means food.
You know, the chicken?
There's a fryer.
You take this and what do you do with that
push-push is
you dry a corn, I think.
I think you...
No, no, you don't grind it. I think first you
put it on the hot tempered piece of steel.
I don't know what you call that thing. I think
you bake it, but you don't bake it because it's
not a woman.
You fry it.
It's like a fry, but no oil. You put it on the
top of that hot plate, you know.
And you keep that turning around that cool
until it becomes brown color.
Brown color?
Yeah, brown color, cook it on top of there.
Because that I saw my auntie doing that.
Then after that, they smash the corn.
Keep smashing until come out like powder.
Brown powder.
Then she mix up with something like that, with
water, I don't know, with the mixture.
They prepare for this American.
I call him my friend already.
I said, it's my friend.
They said, how you know your friend?
I said, you don't speak English, I'm American.
Then I said to my auntie, she's going every day
with me now, every day we go.
So I said, you give him the pus-pus, so hurry
up auntie, make the pus-pus.
They make everything, that's the only one.
So they catch some kind of a chicken small like
this maybe.
After they serve us, you know, I eat mine, I
finish mine already.
And he never eat.
I just swing them and then look at my cousin,
because at that time my cousin was very young.
Maybe around that time, 17, 18, 19, like that.
When he said puss, puss, he didn't mean food, no?
Yeah, didn't mean food.
He was looking for a woman.
They want a lady.
They want those chicks.
I didn't know, you know, when you were a boy
you don't know those.
I don't know those sexes.
So they keep pointing me.
My auntie being discouraged.
Hey, Joe, push, push, and then, hey, look,
and then my auntie's the one who discovered that.
Who knows?
He said, son, you take your friend and bring him
to those place where those Japanese ladies down there,
because plenty down there, and take them,
and I don't want to give it to your sister.
And I said, oh, yeah, that's the one.
I told him, I say, hey, Joe.
Then I give him signal to take him to the,
near the shrine area.
There was a barracks in there with this thing,
Japanese and Okinawan comfort women, maybe,
that's probably the best thing there, so I gave
him two to go there, to jump, like that.
So he said poos poos, and you got him at food,
chicken with corn.
Yeah, but my aunt is the one who discovered
that. She was the one who told me about his
son, your friend, your sister.
I think I better take them down to Laika, and
that's a real story.
Take it down to Laika?
To some of those Japanese ladies, yeah. Comfort.
Yeah, so I took them there, and they were very happy.
And the next day, they come out with a truck.
They look for me there, where I hide the steel
there in the jungle, you know.
With the big trucks, and they come in with
rations, you know, plenty on the top.
With rations?
Rations, you know those rations?
Rations, yeah.
cookies and whatever their foods.
Oh, because you found women for it.
I don't know, but they bring in there for the
people probably that stay in there.
The village low food, you know.
They keep handling the foods and give it to the people.
So, me at the time already, I know where the
cookies were the thing to eat, you know.
I said to my friend over here, America is very
good, people.
Number one.
Don't you know, before that time, I even forgot
to tell you
but the brother of that Benifacio stays.
I forgot also that now I retract it again.
We have to go back again.
Go back, okay. Yeah.
That, after we leave up there on the hill I
told you,
the High Hill. Yeah.
There was a, I think it's like a church there
that you can see from far distance.
My step-grandfather, the Beata father name.
Now, your step-grandfather?
Yeah, he was my step-grandfather.
What was his name?
Joaquin Duenas.
He is a Spanish, real Spanish.
We had the father, so he is Spanish.
So, he was probably taken by the Kempeitai,
was ordered to remove him from the place.
Maybe at that time they had a plan to execute him
because his skin and everything is European.
You know, look, everything.
You don't look like a Chamorro that way.
And what was his name again?
Joaquin Duenas.
So, every day, my mother told me to stop over
there and give my sweet potatoes for my grandfather.
For my grandfather.
So, every time I have to look for the Japanese,
you know, around, before I give him the sweet potatoes.
And I say, Grandpa, I'm giving you this, your food.
And he says, son, better let those American
throw us biscuit.
Biskutsu, you know, this bread and butter,
rather than those bombs.
I said, Grandfather, don't talk like that,
because if you talk like that,
they're gonna cut you through,
because there's a guy already,
they're cutting through already.
They cut and they kill you.
They said, oh, son, these European people,
these American people, very good people.
They're the richest people.
That's why they keep giving me the stories,
you know, telling me all the story about this.
Never mind these Japanese,
they're not gonna win the war.
They're gonna lose the war.
These American people, they got a lot of
things, that's what my grandfather said.
He'd be after father, you know.
I said, okay, grandfather, but don't say
anything because it's dangerous.
So, by that time, I don't know, maybe my auntie
Beata knows somebody
among those groups that are executing people.
And maybe at that time, she saved the father's life
by night, killing him, you know, by hiding him.
But the opposite direction from him
is not very far that direction.
There was a birna tree, tying the same brother
with that guy that they executed him
after one week or two weeks late.
The guy was, you know.
Well, wait a minute, there was a brother, you say?
Mm-Hmm, do you remember the brother that was,
that I told you that, you know, there was a cigarette
Oh yeah, he was killed and I didn't know that
there was another brother that also been
victimized for that problem.
Maybe he was suspect also for a spy or
something, I didn't know.
But after I passed my grandfather's cave, I
keep going down the hill, I saw the guy before
I came down,
he was hanging and saying, hey amigo, calling
me, you know, to come to him.
They said, what happened to your amigo?
You know, Amigo means friend.
They said, the Japanese tied me here, Amigo,
can you raise up my shirt?
Because the sun burning me here.
And then I keep looking around, you know.
The soldier over there, the Japanese.
I was scared, too, because, you know, I'm a
boy, but I don't know what I'm doing.
Now, who was the name of this guy tied to the tree?
The one that tied on the tree, the name is, I
think, if I'm not mistaken, I think his name is.. .
The first one Bonifacio, then I think his name
was David, something like that.
And his last name was?
Esteves also, the same brother.
Esteves, he was the brother of the guy who was
beating him. Why did the Japanese tie him to a tree?
I don't know, for some reason maybe he's
suspect also for spying, that's the only way
the Japanese do.
And you saw him at the tree?
Yeah, because he's calling me.
And you went and talked to him?
Yeah, and then I went over there and raised up his,
you know, his, one of, part of his clothing is
like this down here, you know, went down. Yeah.
So the sun, you know, hitting him, burn him,
you know,
his skin.
I think the concept for that is to let the airplane
target him there.
How long was he tied there?
I don't know, maybe a week.
I never see him.
How long?
I never ask him there.
Only when I pass from my grandfather to give
him the,
the sweet potatoes.
That's what the time I, I heard somebody
calling me.
Did you see him again after?
Never. After that, no more. After my return, no
more. He was not there anymore.
What happened to him?
I don't know, but when I returned, I went back
to the hill again from going down to pick up
some water.
On my way up, he was no longer there.
So probably the Japanese came back, they took
him maybe and killed him.
He's no more. He never returned from the place.
Disappeared or something.
Was anybody in your family married to a Japanese?
Yeah, my mother's sister is a Beata.
I thought Beata was married to Jack.
That's right, she's a Sakura.
Now, did you know him very well?
I don't know him very well, but I know him.
He's my uncle from my auntie Beata, yeah.
Okay. Now, what do you remember about any, do
you remember any Koreans here on Rota?
Korean, yeah. They were, I think, I didn't even
know those are Korean.
But I know civilian Korean. They were here
because they've been married to some Chamorro here.
That's the one you're talking about. King. Yeah.
That's married to the Chimorohi. Yeah. That's
how it become the king.
Did you know any of them very well? Yeah. Some
I know them.
The king's, I think, I don't know, uncle here,
but his name,
I think Juan Ogo. Okay. The Ogo family.
That's why you find the king is from Ogo. Ogo. Yeah.
The mother is Ogo and their father is king.
What did he spell, Ogo?
Oscar Ogo, yeah, the father of Oscar Ogo.
And how do you spell that?
The Ogo, O-G-O.
Did you ever know Ignacio De La Cruz?
That's the one that I don't know, but I heard,
I don't know the last name of that Ignacio, but
I know the way they call him Tunignacio.
Tunignacio in Chamorro means Mr. Ignacio.
I never heard his last name, they never mention
last name like that.
But he had white skin, he had tattoos?
Yeah, they call him Toninasio Papahunic, that's
better known as Toninasio Papahunic, that's the
one that I think that first disappeared.
How about now, Jose King, he had an older
brother by the name of Ignacio too and he
worked for some Taisho.
Where he worked? Some Japanese?
Yeah, he worked for a high-ranking Japanese.
Also? He and Lothar?
Yes, and he was killed. The Americans were
strafing, shooting machine guns, and he was
killed. They hit him in the chest.
Oh, I don't know him. Maybe he was on the site.
The one I'm telling you, they were probably
living in this area.
Because we were in two different locations.
Okay. Now, before the war got close to Rota,
there were very few, probably no soldiers here,
right? Do you remember before the soldiers came?
No, before the war, no soldiers here. They are
all civilians. When the war nearly began here,
that was the time soldiers came in I think.
Did you see any ships sunk?
I never see the ships sunk, but I saw some ship
parking in there somewhere over there.
Did you see any planes shot down?
I've never even seen one, I hear noise but I've
never seen it shot down.
I've never seen it.
Were anybody in your family during Japanese
times sent to other islands?
Not my family relative, but I've never seen
them sent during the war, only after the war I think.
But I heard that they sent some people over
there to war before the war. Yeah.
Or maybe right during the war.
And the interpreters.
interpreters, yeah, because those people in
Guam, they don't know how to speak English, and
one of the Hoko family here, they went over
there, and one of my godfathers,
What was his name?
Mendo, Felipe Mendo and Fritz Mendo, those are
the people in Domingo, Domingo Hoko, because
when I came to Guam, those are the things
referring to me, do I know that man, like that,
you know,
Who asked you about that?
Some Guamanian, you know, the people from Guam
over there.
I know these people here from the road at the top.
Where did you go to Guam?
Well, I went there, my first there is to
observe there my grandfather's sister.
My grandfather from my father has a sister
there in Guam.
So, he wants me to look there and to visit my
aunt, I mean, my grandfather's sister.
And if I like to go to school there, then I can
attend the school over there.
What year was that?
That was way back in 1948, I think.
And how long did you stay on Guam?
I didn't stay very long when I saw my
grandfather's sister.
I did not like at the time because I always
missed my mother at the time.
Yeah. So your father, how old, your what age?
Maybe I was only that time, who knows, maybe 13
or 14 years.
So you came right back?
I came right back because I never left my
mother and my father like that long to go over
there on a far island that I don't know nobody.
So you were there for how long then?
It's just only maybe a few months and then I
came back.
Then later time again, my father still tried to
convince me to go back and attend school
because Laura at that time don't finish school.
So you went back to Guam again?
I went back to continue and try to go to school.
I was thinking I was too late to enroll in
school, you know.
But my father says he's still better son to go
to school because
I need you here on the farm, but I need you
better if you go to school and you learn
part of those school work
rather than here on the farm. Here on the farm
I can teach you, but the things that I cannot
teach you, English
and things like that. So the second time you
went back to Guam,
Yeah, maybe back in 19, almost, maybe after
1948, like that.
So you went, the first time you went to 1948?
Yeah, just to observe, yeah, 1948, earlier that time.
So you came back again for just a few months?
Yeah, maybe a few months like that.
And then went back?
Then I think I went back.
And how long did you stay?
Maybe the same year.
How long did you stay?
I stayed a little bit longer, maybe 6 months,
like that, more, 2 months.
Then I still again want to come back again. Yeah.
Because I still don't like the place where I
live, because I don't see my mother, I don't
see my relatives, not even friends.
It's like I'm a stranger to the place.
Well, where did you learn your English?
Well, I went there, I went to school.
So you went back a third time?
Yeah, later after that, two times, third times,
that was the time when my aunt, you know, one
of my relatives stayed in Guam.
Okay. So how long did you stay the third time?
Oh, that was a long time ago, a year until
vacation time, because I stay in a good place
now because my father's sister, my mother's
sister is staying there.
Okay, what's the total number of years you
spent in Guam?
A long time.
So you eventually finished your education there?
Yeah, I finished high school there.
Okay, and then you stayed in Guam?
Yeah, then I worked here.
What sort of work did you do there?
Well, I was doing different work. I was once
working in some construction company as a
bookkeeper and typist and some office work, you know.
Then after that I worked for some, another big
supermarket company there.
What was the name of the company?
ADA. I think at that time ADA incorporated. ADA?
At that time. ADA?
Then after that, probably after two years
there, I moved to the Moylan company, the
distributor of nearly 98% of the cosmetic and
counter drugs from the United States.
Okay, Moylan company.
Later they come in with a BW Volkswagen now. It
was the only outstanding company that bring in
BW in Germany.
To sell?
A Mercedes-Benz.
To sell, you mean?
To sell.
You brought those cars in?
Yeah, that's the only company that I worked for
that was bringing those boxwagons, one of the
first to go in boxwagons.
And you were selling them?
No I didn't, I was not in the automobile, what
I call, I was with the sales representative.
Okay, now how many years did you say you spent
on Guam?
A lot of years, maybe more than 40 years. 40?
So you came back here only recently?
Yeah, recently, it's 1,980, when I came here,
it's 1,984, something like that. 1984?
Yeah, something like that.
Okay, so what other kind of work did you do
then besides the morning? You did a lot of
different jobs?
Nothing else after that.
You worked from one for 30 years or 40?
I didn't do anything after that, yeah.
She got out a long time ago, I've been working.
And you married over there at Guamini?
Yeah, no, no, Chamorro from here.
From here?
Mm-Hmm. I married there.
Yeah. Now what was her family name?
My wife? Yeah.
But tomorrow they pronounce it Niao, Taimaniao. Taimaniao.
So, and then you came back here in 1982?
Yeah, something like that. I cannot definitely
remember the date, but maybe 1982, 84, like that.
So you have a pension from the company you work for?
No, it's the social security, that's where I
get my retirement. I work for it, that's what
the social security is for.
This Japanese officer you work for, basically
you were just sort of a guide for him, huh?
I think just to accompany him wherever he goes,
it's like, you know, whatever, to see things
around, and then to show him around where the
Chamorro's and things like that, and nothing
else that I saw very particular or whatever is
subject to what in the world coast or what activities.
So you didn't have to work very hard, did you?
No, not working hard anymore in there. I go
with him, just going around and looking around
what people are probably interested in, trying
to find out what people are doing around.
It's too bad you don't know his name.
Yeah, that's the bad thing that I don't
remember his name, but he's a very tall guy and
a sharp guy this guy.
Did you lose any family members in the war? No.
Do you remember an Okinawan nurse by the name
of Higa Kachuk?
Is that before the war?
No, she was here during the war. She was killed
during the war. Higa Kachuk.
I don't know that. I never met that nurse.
Did you know Antonio Borja when he was here?
Yes, Antonio Borja, he came from here. That's
why he was here a long time before he moved to Tinian.
That's the one I was talking to you about.
Well, he said he was born and raised on Tinian,
Antonio Borja.
Maybe when he was beginning his life before he
moved to Rota.
Yeah, he came here in 1943.
Maybe that's what, yeah, maybe he was right.
He was born and raised there in the beginning,
but later than that, that's what I see in him.
But I don't know actually where he began with.
I never know where he really, but he's always
in Tinian.
I think he's got a family already.
No, he's in his 70s. He used to be the mayor of Kenya.
Yeah, way back.
And so the first Americans you saw were in jeep
right here.
Yeah, trucks and jeep.
Did you remember a Mr. Torres from Guam?
Yes, I remember some of the Torres.
He was married to a Rotanese and after the war
he came here, but he came here and he sponsored
several Chamorro's from Rota to come to Guam
and study English.
Yeah, that one I understand, they were Chamorro
who stayed with the Torres family and worked
with the Torres family.
Antonio Borja was one.
Yeah, I was one of them that was picked up with
the Torres family.
Yeah, I don't remember whether he worked for
the Torres family,
but I know there's some Chamorro who worked
because he'd been my uncle.
Worked with the Torres family.
Oh, wow. Yeah.
They were the first Chamorro that I know who
had a business at the time. Yeah.
The Torres, Martinis, like this kind of name
they had.
And Ada, Ada has a soap factory at the time,
that's why a lot of Chamorro
going over there from here too, inside the
supermarket. I was talking to him.
Did you have a personal acquaintance with Juan Pons?
Juan Pons?
Father Juan Pons. He was the priest here from 1930.
Oh, I don't know much about father. The only
time I remember him when I go to the church.
So, like, you know, some guy I kissed in school
when I was a small boy.
The age maybe of 7, 6 or 7 years old.
I remember the father is very fat and she got a
fat leg, you know.
That, I don't know what is that.
He's got some kind of disease on the feet.
Coming out, it's like a miracle, this priest
that I'm going to tell you now.
During that time, I remember him, he's always
a, it's like a handicap priest because
both the legs got some kind of melted in his
two feet.
it. But the interesting part in there that the
priest is like a miracle. If you say like this,
for example, let's pray for three prayers of
our father, you know, like that. Only three of that
and let's have some rain. Right after we have
that prayer, imagine that. I cannot believe that
that that thing gonna happen, the rain comes
from God,
the way I believe from Him.
The next thing I remember Him, He says,
too much rain, let's spray again another tree.
Our Father like that.
We ask Him to cut off the rain.
Let's cut off the rain again.
Let's pray again to have some of our produce
from farm healthy and productive.
We do again. You can see a lot of the things at
the time when Father Day, when you mentioned
about that priest.
I remember him on those things, that occasion.
And then I remember him one time when I heard
from some soldiers came into his convent and
tried to remove him there.
During the war, to use that convent for an office.
For Japanese military office.
Were you there?
No, I was here in Loro, but I was not on the
actual scene of that, but I heard that one from
the Japanese.
You heard from them?
Yeah, from Japanese that the police don't want
to move from that campaign.
And then, you know, by reluctantly trying to
hear what they're saying about that, and then
they say again that the police refused to come
out of the campaign.
come back and if they do they're gonna kill him
probably the next subject they're gonna do that but
what I heard from him that the translation they
say the word that the priest told him to give him
five minutes or 10 minutes like that before he
was removed or he they went to remove him
so from that time five minutes they came in 10
minutes after like that the priest is already gone
he died there and he's coming so it's like a
miracle to me I never know that thing gonna
Now how about did you ever hear anything about
the Japanese planning to kill all the Chamorros?
Oh yes, but I didn't hear that from the
Japanese. I hear that from like my father.
Like that and some other Chamorro that were
suspecting. I don't know whether they suspect
or it's really going to happen.
happen. Yeah, there was a very deep hole down,
that you can't even see the light
when you're down there, cannot even see the
light from down there because it's
very deep. Yeah, that was the first subject
came in, in between the time when
the American already, I think, trying to invade
Guam, during the invasion of Guam,
when the Japanese tried to investigate the
Chamorro there, trying to get some
information or spying information. And maybe
some of the Chamorro don't give
them an accurate information there in Guam. So
they're trying to treat them,
treat the Chamorro here, it's just like the way
they're doing over there in Guam.
They try to refuse to give information. So
they're trying to punish us just the
way they did over there, what they're against
there, they're trying to put us in here as a
victim, you know.
So what I heard that that combination of that
whole is that when the American are
ready to come in, when the time when they're
going to invade the place and we
try to against them, try and do something to
harm them, maybe every one of them is
going to be executed down, thrown down the hole.
Is that hole still here?
That's what I heard a story, but I don't know
really for that whether that's the
real. Because I never heard the Japanese saying
that that's going to be our life
hope. Dead hope. They never say that. But the
Chamorro is just like a suspect
reason. I don't know exactly on that. But if
that's the water, then the first thing
that I heard about that hole is for the water.
Because at the time we don't have
a wall, we have to go down to the ocean where
near the well, you know this, I think there's
a water running down to the ocean, it's like a
sweet water, maybe from the valley or from
the mountain, it's being the ocean water. And
if you come to that and you just dig and
remove the part of the sands, then you can get
the sweet water. And it's really good,
you can drink it, you can use it for your food.
That time, yeah, I used to pick up two
You know that, you ever seen that soy sauce,
Japanese soy sauce, Kikkoman? Yeah.
That two bottle, that big size like that, I
used to carry it on my back, carrying water to
those mountain up there.
Bring it in there.
Was there anything else you can think of that I
haven't asked you?
No, unless you have another question over
there, you know, someone told me.
No, I think I...
Yeah, I think anything else, unless I missed
some and I didn't put it again.
Because sometimes it's too hard to retract, you
know, memory after 60-some years.
I know, I know.
Very difficult, but it's lucky that I remember
a few of those happening, you know.
Well, here's what I'm going to do now. I'm just
going to...
Today is Thursday, the 30th of October, 1997.
This will be the second interview with Jose
Hocag Munda on the island of Rota.
The interviewee is Bruce Petty.
petty. I know I asked you some things but you
said you had several brothers and
young brothers and sisters who died during the
war? Yeah, it's hard to remember my brother. I
only remember that during the move of my three
brothers that I got, my father told me that the
transfer of his brothers from
one place to another place that make it so
difficult for for him to keep moving
around and hunger caused this thing because we
have to look for food and
how to get a food there during the revolution
of this aircraft that I mean
because it's military plane when I was gonna
shoot you yeah I was become more
difficult for probably for my father and my two
other brothers or three other
brothers to get food so maybe he's starving
problem that time okay they
never said that and never said a place where
we're gonna stay we can cook we
don't have a fire if you build a fire that time
they're gonna execute you
because they say you might crossing the driving
during the war crossing the
planes yeah you know they see the fire during
that time when you're cooking
Smokes or any other signal, you know, it's a
sign. Yeah, maybe it's people over there. So
Plane could easily notice that from up there on
this guy that there was a smoke or there's a fire
So people there or somebody there might be a
soldier may be a civilian. They don't they come out
They say so you have three younger brothers.
Yeah, I think I we have three
I have three younger brother, but the most I remember
That time of my younger brother was only two
two. That's let's make the two because the
Jesus and the Houston
That's the name of my two brothers.
Jesus and Justino.
How do you spell that? Justino?
Jesus is J-E-S-U-S. Jesus.
The other one is Justino. Justino.
Before H-O, now J-U. J-U.
So you had two younger brothers or three?
Yes, younger.
Just two?
Let's put it on two and correct that because
the other one I don't remember very well.
So there might have been three?
There might have been three, but two I remember
very well of my brother.
Let's put it that way.
You said you worked on your father's farm even
before you started the school.
No, before I go to American school.
After the war.
Oh, after the war you helped.
After the war.
So before you went to the Japanese school here,
you didn't work at all?
I did. They call it a child labor.
But at that time when I was in school, the
first that I remember was that the school...
You know, those students, we usually come out
from that class and we have, I think,
a day to go up to the airport, another time to
make that airbase.
The time we don't have a good airbase, that was
the time when we started, I think, before
the war.
Before the war got to Roku?
Yeah, I think already Japan already in a move
to be in the war.
maybe they got the information here. So do you
remember how old you were when you
have an airbase? Do you remember how old you
were when you? I think the time, let me see,
maybe 9 years old. And you were born what year?
8 or 9, like 9 years old probably. And you were
born what year? 31. 31, so it would be 1940
then. Yeah, probably before the war, yeah.
No, no when we when we working on the airport,
that's already I'm in school before the war. Yeah
Okay. So how many years of school did you get
out of the three years and on my fourth?
Just to start it. That's the time the war
coming airplane coming
Okay, fourth year than there, but you but you
were working on the airport before that. Yeah before
Before the war everyone were talking about
before the war
During the school year, you know, Japanese
school year, we have to leave, I think, one
whole day during the week in the class, if I'm
not mistaken.
To share that work up there to help the
airbase, make a new airbase.
Okay, so one day a week?
Yeah, something like that. One day a week.
day week. Okay. To come out of there and use
our, you know, child labor there to
help them making the best buy. How we did it is
we help them pulling this
roller by rope, you know. They tie the roller
with the rope and then we, the
student, pull this rope and we roll the roller.
Okay, by crush form? Crush form with the
gravel, you know.
Okay, was that like crushed coral that you were
pulling it up?
Yeah, you know they have gravels, huh? They
bring it in, maybe a Japanese truck brought
those gravels.
So after they sprayed that out, we came in with
a roller and we pulled the roll.
Oh, okay.
So when you said you helped your father on the
farm, that was before you moved to Guam then?
Yeah, before also, and even before and after.
We both, when I was a child, I was helping my
father sometimes, but not much before the war.
I didn't help him much before the war. Yeah.
Only after the war, that's the time I put more
help, because I didn't go to school right away. Yeah.
So that was the time that I spent more time
with him on the farm.
Okay. You said you had an uncle who was from Okinawa.
Yes, it's a relative.
It's not very close relative, but I call him uncle.
Do you remember his name? Kanishi.
Kanishi? How do you spell that? K-A-N-I-S-H-I.
Kanishi, and he was married?
That's the last name.
Yeah, and he was married to...
To Rokanishi, my auntie, Maria. Maria...
Maria... Maria Mundo is the wife.
Maria Mundo, okay.
Married to... The first name of this Kanishi,
they call him Yama.
How do you spell that? Y-A... Y-A-M-A.
Yama Kanishi, okay.
They call him Yama, Yama.
Okay, and that is...
whether his nickname that's what I understand
now did he stay here after the
war did he before the war he was here yeah he
was doing the kind of work it's
like we call this in Japanese Seiza Seiza is
it's a it's a word that I think
it's a lumber machine there's a machine that
cutting this it's a lumber you know
It's a look log and cut that for a lumber. You
know, they worked in a
He has a machine number did he stay here after
the war with his wife and children or didn't
yes before the war no after
The war the war I think he lived here with two
children, but and his wife stayed here wife
stay here with the other children
So how many children did they have all together
the one you brought it to Okinawa is two?
And how many stayed here?
The other ones stayed here, I think, let me
see, Jose, Maria, stayed here and won.
Did he have a choice? Could he have stayed here
with his wife and family or was he forced to go
back? Or do you know?
I think because of the sending back some
Japanese from here after the war, I think that
was the move.
I don't know exactly what was that, but that
was the move from them.
Okay, did he ever come back after the war?
No, he never did.
Then one of the sons came here to visit the mother.
Maybe after, I don't know how many years, maybe
10 years or 20 years.
I cannot remember the time, but came for
visiting the mother here.
Just once?
A very long time, yeah, once, maybe twice that
I remember.
Well, you said that when the planes first
started bombing, you said that you ran into
your uncle.
No, I met him.
Okay, you met him?
Met him on the road.
Oh, I see. You ran into your uncle.
Then after you saw him, he had a spear gun.
Yeah, he was carrying a fishing spear gun.
But then you said, after you left him, you
continued to look for your mother and father.
Yes, it was already the starting part of the
war, that's where the plane coming in.
Yeah, but did you find your mother and father
that same day?
Yeah, later. Later, maybe, let's see. Yeah,
probably later I find my mother.
Okay, let me stop you for a second. Now, do you
remember the sequence?
You left your Okinawan uncle, and now how did,
what happened?
You left him and how did you find your mother
and father?
So I go look in the village, I keep looking
around where they are, but they also want to
evacuate from there.
Move away from there.
That time there was a siren, you know, there
was a noise.
I recall that thing.
Air raid siren?
Yeah, something like a defense.
When that thing, you hear that, you have to
find a way to hide.
Or running means the plane's coming in.
I think a warning.
Yeah, air raid warning.
Yeah, air raid warning, yeah.
The warning for the people that, I think the
American bomber coming in or the airplane.
Okay, so you went back to Tata Chow?
Yeah, I keep looking around where's my father
and my mother at the time.
How did you find them?
Well, they already gone and live there
somewhere near the cliff.
But how did you find out they were there?
Two, three days later.
Oh, so several days later you found out.
Yeah, several days later.
Did somebody tell you they were there or you
just ran into them?
just keep moving around there and trying to
find out from where they are until I
discovered that they were there. How did they
react when they saw you did they
think? Well instead of I think they got two
kinds of feeling they want to whip me
for disappearing during that time and some kind
of sorry. Yeah. I cannot
describe my mother but at that time my father
just don't want to whip me, just don't
want to punish me. What did your mother say? My
mother says I cannot punish my
son she called my uncle. We were two of that at
the time we were two together.
Okay so did your uncle punish you? He just told
me give me some kind of
warning but he whipped me one time and he says
if you touch we're gonna give you
two or three. If you touch what? If I touch the
whip you know my butt. If I whip you one
then your touch you know during the whipping
it's gonna adjust it
gonna give you more. It's a warning, you know.
Yeah, a warning, okay.
I get only one.
Okay, let's see.
Bonifacio Estevez.
He was killed by the Japanese.
That was at Tatachau, right?
Yeah. No, not Tatachau when he was killed.
Over here in...
I think there's a name over here.
Maybe trying to find out the name. Esun.
How would you spell that? E.S.O.N.G.
They grabbed him at Tatachow.
They took him from Tatachow to that place.
Okay, and he was the only one they executed at
that time?
Yeah, he's the only one that I know because I
got some kind of
passing information from another person.
Then you said that later his younger brother
was killed.
And his name again was?
Yeah, what he called the other younger brother
is Sabino.
Sabino, how do you spell that? S-A-B-I-N-O
Sabino, okay now.
That's the guy that really hurt me.
Okay, now can you tell me that story one more time?
You were looking for mangoes, is that what it was?
No, Sabino was on my way down to get water down
here on the ocean.
Okay, that's when you were still living in the cave.
Yeah, up there in Asakodo area. Asakodo.
That's the first that we moved to that place.
More higher ground level and more cave.
More jungle to hide.
That was your first hiding place?
That's where the first before, you know, before
I went to my mother on the very first one.
That was the first that we, our family,
together there in that area.
Okay, so that was the first hiding area. Yes.
And then you came down looking for water.
Yeah, I, on my way to look for water,
one day I came down to some of this area down here
to pick up some water.
What was that area called?
They would call this Ujulan. Ujulan?
On the way to get water, and tell me what
happened there.
Then, when I was just about to leave that
hiding area,
hiding place. On my way, I heard a word from
this guy calling, say, amigo. The word Amigo
means friend.
Yeah. So I turn, look around, who's that
calling? Then I see the guy tied against a
betel nut tree.
Tied to a betel nut tree. Mm-Hmm. His hand was
on the, you know, the back of the tree like that.
So I approach him and say, yes, and I say, can
you do me a favor and raise part of my shirt up
because the sun burning me.
That could protect part of the sun heating, you
know, sunburn.
So I did. I look around first, you know, see if
the Japanese soldiers around.
So I took a chance and raised that shirt to
cover the soldier area, you know.
So after that, I told him to be very careful
because maybe those Japanese are still around,
you know.
And they are very serious.
He told you to be careful?
No, me.
He wanted me to be very careful.
Then he spoke to me that say he feel that they
are probably the airplane the American plane will
Probably shoot him there
And that's why he was tight there. That's what
he's feeling. That's what he believed. Probably.
That's what the Japanese intended to do
So I said I gotta go and get some water
On my way down to pick up some water, on my
return about maybe three hours later, or two
or three hours like that, I cannot remember the
hour, but maybe that's the length of time.
On my return, he was disappeared already, he
was not there anymore.
So I assumed that during the plane circle him
around that time, and he was not shot,
never got a shot or didn't shoot him, the way I
feel it, you know?
Do you know how long he had been tied to that tree?
Did he tell you?
Maybe overnight there.
Just overnight? Yeah.
Because morning when I left there,
when I left the place in the morning,
so I assume that maybe 10:00 sun
that hitting him there, 10.
Because I left about probably that hour.
Now if the Japanese had caught you helping him,
even talking to him.
I might be in danger myself too.
If I get caught, because you know,
those things are very strict.
They're trying to find out, probably,
whether there's any connection with an American.
They're interested in a spy, probably.
They're trying to find out that.
Well, how did you find out he'd been killed?
Because he was no longer, and then another day,
another day comes, next day, nobody.
He never show up, and nobody seems to see him
no more.
So his body was never found?
Never found, I don't know where they execute him.
So you don't know for sure if he was killed,
but nobody ever saw him?
The reason why I'm sure he was killed because
that fight him there for it's a reason already
to be executed
But nobody nobody ever saw him again because
after that nobody saw him. Okay, so we talked
about that in that area
I never see him. Never see him again
After the one no more after that day. No more.
Now. This was how long after his brother was
killed you think?
that one
It's a I think
The brother is more earlier, Bonifacio is older
than him, so he's earlier because right after
the church's rosary, that was the beginning of
the raid, you know, going on on the Tatachuk village.
The first raid.
The first raid, when I met this older brother,
which is Bonifacio, the older one.
Okay, right.
So maybe that's what caused him on the next brother.
brother so they made the his brother became a
suspect probably that was maybe
the the next intentional what the Japanese
soldier okay okay you're
telling me too when you went down to your
grandfather's farm looking for
mangoes with a friend Sebastian's and Nicholas
yeah no that's not I am NOT
I was with Sebastian. I was with Antonio Mangonia.
Oh, Antonio Mangonia.
That's the guy. That's the Fumamir brother. The
brother of the Fumamir.
Okay. And you said, instead of going back to
where your parents were...
Now, this is the first cave that you're talking about?
Or is this after they had moved someplace else?
That one, we already moved on the second.
Okay. The second place?
The second place.
Was called what?
No, wait a minute. They called the second place
Asmangu. Then the third move was Sakaza. Sakaza.
So that one was, when the time I report this,
was Sakaza.
Sakaza. And that's where Jose King was there too.
Okay, instead of going back to where your
parents were, you said you and Antonio decided
to go in a different direction. And then you
spent the night out in the open?
Antonio and I decided to go pick up some mango
at my grandfather which is
Beata's father. Grandfather's farm, ranch. So
at the time when we reached the
place there were a lot of mangoes on the top so
we don't climb it up we pick up
some kind of, you know, wood and rocks and we
just throw up there.
Now, I'm not talking about the time Antonio was arrested.
You said there was another time where you met
somebody and instead of going
directly back to your parents, you went in a
different direction.
Oh, that one, Sebastian. That's the one, Sebastian.
Sebastian San Nicolas.
Okay. Sebastian San Nicolas was, that's the one
before I get whipped. Right.
That's the one we did first in the beginning
when, before I get whipped.
We got whipped together. Yeah.
Okay, that night we went on the wrong direction.
We don't know where's my family.
We don't know.
Nobody knows where.
So we took a place and we stuck up here.
They call it Teneto area. Teneto?
How do you spell that? Teneto.
We stuck up there for some reason.
There was a, used to be a small house, belong
to the Beata.
So this is Sakra Vyata no longer there because
evacuated, my aunty evacuated from there too.
Nobody there.
So we stayed there overnight.
The next morning, nothing to eat, nothing that
I can find anything.
I saw the papaya, you know, wild papaya.
I decided to pick it up and eat them.
So we saw some wild cow that been busted up the
fence that belongs to Hattori, you know.
I think that time Hattori has a, what do you
call this, a fence, cow fence.
And then during that time, maybe the fence
broke out.
So the cow become, you know, scattered around.
So it happened that we saw the cow that has a
very big nipple, and maybe the intention
of my other friend, Sebastian, think about the
milk, so he went over there and sucked
the milk as well.
It's very interesting.
Now, this was during your first hiding place,
or you had moved to Sasekura by then?
That was the very, very first when we don't
meet our parents yet.
Oh, you hadn't even found your parents yet?
No, we haven't found yet.
Oh, so this is like this three days?
That's where we're stuck, and that's why our
parents worry.
Oh, that was during the three-day period that
you were still looking for your parents.
Okay, that's important then.
Yeah, that's the worry of...
That's what I wanted to get straight.
Very worried because of two things, maybe, that
my mother and my father have been feeling.
It's worriness, whether we die, or what happens.
When the bombing first started, you were
separated from your parents. Right.
And during this three-day period, you were with
Sebastian St. Nicholas.
And then that's when you found the mangoes and
the cow, and then after that you found your parents.
No, at that time we found the cow.
Right, you found the cow.
Not the mango with Sebastian, the cow first. Right.
And that's when we began to drink the milk.
So he sucked the milk.
And then, before that time that we sucked the
milk in the morning,
I recall that there was a Japanese soldier came
into the place
cooking some rice and after they cook some rice
they leave one it's like a
bowl of rice you know it's not on the boat they
make it like a ball like a
bowl but it's nothing like a dish or anything
it's just they make it round
a rice ball rice ball like that and then put it
there but probably when we get
off from sleeping we might be able to eat those
Japanese soldier probably did
that on purpose that they cook it in there and
then this they disappear so
you spent the night with Japanese soldiers no
they came from somewhere
okay maybe the time and then they cook it there
and they were outside the
kitchen somewhere because the house separate
from the outside where they
cooking they knew you were there though
probably because they see us probably
inside sleeping so they didn't bother us from
maybe they're the soldiers that
saw us there you know that we just only
sleeping we didn't do nothing so they
left us with that and then we share but when I
saw some kind of a thing there on
the rice maybe by Mistaken there was a paper
you know some kind of newspaper
or something there that you know like a broken
old paper maybe they mixed up
with the water and they didn't notice that so
when it looked like that I didn't
eat the rice. Really? Even him I think he never
eat that. So that's why I took the papaya. Why?
It looks dirty to me.
Maybe the water or something caused that and it
doesn't appear to me to feel to eat that.
So rather than, I took the papaya, the wild papaya.
Now can you tell me how to spell Sakaja? S-A-K-A-Y-A
That's a Y-A-N. How do you spell Apulu?
Apulu. A-P-U-L-U.
Oh, Apulu.
Okay, you were telling me about this Japanese
fellow who was sort of in charge of your
village. His name was Yamamoto.
Yeah, Yamamoto.
Did you know him before the war?
I never know him, only during the war when they
have this place.
Was he married to a Chamorro?
No, I don't think so. I think he was put there
like an in-charge, like a consul, I don't know
what, but he's above all the Chamorro there.
Okay, was he, did you know what happened to him
after the war? Did you see him after the fight?
I never see him after that one.
I never know after that one.
Was he close to the Chamorros? Was he friendly?
Well, as the way I see it, he's friendly. He's
not that bad.
Yamamoto is supposed to be the friend of the
Chamorro, too.
The problem is to take care of the Chamorro, to
look after the Chamorro.
And then under him, there was a Chamorro that
worked under him, you know.
It's like a council.
Probably he's getting information from this
group of Chamorro that he organized there, like
a council for him.
Did he have a Japanese wife and children there
with him?
No, I never saw them.
Antonio Manglonia, do you remember right after
the war was over, do you remember what happened
to him? Did he leave?
He stayed here.
He stayed here forever?
No, not forever. Then he moved to Guam.
To go to school?
To find a work, I think.
He didn't go to school. He went to find a work.
That was his next move, I understand.
Okay. You were talking about catching coconut
crabs, too.
Oh yeah, that was...
Can you describe that to me?
Okay, during the third move, they call it
Sakaza area.
That's where we live almost permanently after
the war.
During the war, that was the last area where we hide.
At that time the Chamorro was almost organized
themselves to put them in one place together
and then they determined the place where they
can probably work for farming.
And this farming they try to provide food for
the soldier what they farm.
The sweet potatoes, corn, whatever they do it's
not only in turn to help the people that hiding
there for their food but also to donate it or
to give it to the to the military
at the time. I don't know whether this is just
a volunteer or an order from the
Japanese military authority. I do not know the
time I didn't know about that.
Okay. But we did that one so among this group
of Chamorro they divide,
shooting group. Maybe one of this is in charge
one person. You this do this
part and then another person do this another
part and about three I think
three separate group there that I am that I
come across but I did not
remember the names but I do remember two of
them that was I went to these two
person that I we were assigned to the place so
when we went to this one group
It's an old man, and we try to work with them,
and our work there is to help them, you know,
cleaning the farming area, those grass we have
to clean, you know, for preparation.
I have that part down.
Preparation for farming.
Yeah, but then you said that you were young and
small, and they didn't do a very good job, so
they had you hunt coconut crabs.
But first we were assigned there before we get
to the coconut crop hunting. Yeah
So we do first on the grass work, you know
Prepare those things. Okay, but when they find
out maybe that we are too young and we didn't
do good job on the
You know pulling out those weeds
They find out that we never turn out a good
work. So they give us another assignment
Maybe these two kids is good to go catch some
coconut crops and maybe we can eat coconut crops
or lunch. So we were told to do that. So we
went and hunted coconut crab during the day.
But I'm curious about the process. What did you
actually do? The whole process of catching a
coconut crab, how would you do it? There's no
process. We just go to the jungle and go to some
where lots of rocks, you know, or some holes,
wood. You know when there's a wood, decay wood,
There's a hole in there sometimes, a coconut
crab hiding in that.
So you just reach in with your hand and grab?
Yeah, we grab it on our hand.
But I used to see these coconuts with a hole
cut and tied to a tree.
That's a trap, but we don't do the trap.
Daytime, we don't do the trap.
Oh, and during the daytime? Yes.
Oh, so you hunt it during the day?
So we don't do that, the trap.
We do with our hand.
We see that on the hole.
I have to put my finger inside the hole and
pull out the coconut crab.
Is it because there were so many in those days?
You didn't need them?
Yeah, so many of them.
Did you ever, what happened if you get their claws
on your finger?
No, if I feel that I cannot see the pinch, you know,
and I can't see because it's hiding,
I cut a stick, you know, piece of wood,
and insured that for testing purpose.
When I tested that that thing has been bite
by the coconut crab, I feel that I have to let
it bite
for a little while so that it makes it so tight enough
to pull and break the clone, you know, they
call it,
the clone.
The claw.
Yeah, to break that clone.
So after I break that, it's safe for me now
on the next move to pull out the coconut crab
because it's already paralyzed on the palm.
It's no more power and strength to bite me.
Okay, so he locks onto the stick.
Yeah, to the stick.
And then he doesn't let go.
And the trick, yeah.
Sometime he does, you know, he does the coconut crab.
Sometime he does.
It's probably, you know, feel that the stick is not,
I don't know what the taste,
but some coconuts not, you know, don't hold
that much.
So if I notice that that cannot do,
I, you know, I try to hit the,
the claw, you know, with a stick, a more bigger stick.
Try to break it.
And after that, that's the time I pull it out.
Oh yeah, I asked you this before.
How do you spell that?
You said there was that battalion
that you worked for that, Teixeira?
What's the name?
You call it the Sinkintai?
Oh, Sinkintai, that's the, yeah. Sinkintai.
That's the group of those soldiers, yeah, the Sinkintai.
But you don't remember how to say it?
I never remember the name.
Shinkentai, you use the word S-H-I-N... S-H-I?
No G? No.
No, K-E-N K-E-N?
Shinkentai, and then Tai, T-A-I
T-A-I, okay, Shinkentai
You can put hyphen in there and then put the Tai
Tai is a soldier's group, you know
And how do you spell Funta?
Asfunta is the name of a place where they're
hiding there, inside the big jungle.
Is that F-U-N-T-A?
Yes, A-S-F-U-N-T-A.
F-U-N-T-A, Asfunta.
You said when you took the Teshao to where your
parents were staying,
what did, do you remember him saying anything,
or did he do anything, or did he just kind of observe?
No, at the first time when this Japanese
Shinkentai came over to the place where we were working
there on the sweet potatoes plantation field,
we were cleaning this area at the time we started.
So they were ready to put what they call a hill
for the sweet potatoes.
Before we did that, there was a lot of airplane
noise coming around, so we ran away, and then
we saw that light, you know.
But what I meant, though, first you were taken
to see this Taisho, and then he says you were
going to work for him.
No, no.
At the plantation field, this is the beginning,
right there where they put the light, huh?
You watch this.
Right, the flare.
That was the time when Antonio and me, the
Manglonia, we start to run and try to hide.
I didn't know whether the Tzinkentai were there
in the field.
I didn't know that.
We didn't know. See?
We are not concerned about that military,
concerned about that thing, and we are scared
about it.
So we have to run.
So during this carrot of those refraction from
the others, we are on the other side.
So we cover ourselves with grass, you know, so
that the plane will not see us.
The plane circle around to see, they can see at
night time people working there.
So those people, the Shinkentai, they call it
Taicho, they were there and watching us,
which we do not know whether they were there.
We never know whether they are there, already
on the field watching the Chamorro, we are
what we were doing.
So after the plane shook and left, later that
was the time the soldiers tried to go closer
to us and say, hey you boy, come out here, like that.
We came out and then, yes, you know, brother,
huh, huh, who, yes, you know, I stood and
stand, you know, when the Japanese ask you to
come out like that, you feel
already to stand straight and look at him and
then you wait what they're going
to say to you. They didn't say nothing. You
just stand and, you know, and then, yeah,
Christian came up to ask what we were doing
instead of ask my name. They said
of what you were doing there, boy, in that
time, you know? Yeah.
And then I answer him that what we did there is hiding
because the American plane put a light up there. Yeah.
That's all I remember.
Then he said, are you scared?
And I said, yes, I did.
I'm scared.
So a little while there, they keep looking around,
you know, and then after that, he took me with them.
left the member and left out Antonio right Tony
was there yeah now see I'll
have I have that written down already I went
with them right but they're
separate from the group no more in the group
but after you were taken back to
the Taisha remember and he said after you had
spent the night there at his
headquarters yeah his place where he's hiding
yeah yeah then he said I want you
to take me to where? The Chamorro, yes. And he
said, you took him to... Tomorrow, yeah, he
said on the next day.
Tomorrow we are going to the Chamorro place
where they're hiding. Yeah, where
your parents were. And the first person you met
was your... Yata. Yata. Now, do you
remember him saying anything to anybody there,
or how he behaved? Well, they speak a little while,
maybe not much talk and then they talk more a
little bit deeper in Japanese
because my auntie understand the time more
Japanese than I did yeah the
language is more a little bit deeper that I
couldn't pick up some of those
talk so after that when we were just about to
leave my another
biata you know my auntie told me that those are
the high class people the
high people, high-ranking people that I have to
be very good because anything I
miss around there they could execute the entire
Chamorro with their
signature yeah and sign for that so probably
she knows about this mark
somewhere, probably she remembers those kind of people.
Okay, now how about Asmalote, how do you spell that?
Asmalote, M-A-L-A-T-E
That's an E, okay.
And you said you had an uncle who was out there
in Asmalote?
Yeah, my uncle Joaquin Duenas, the younger
brother of Beato.
And nothing happened between him and the
Japanese at that time?
Nothing, during the day we went to another place.
That's the place where we went to look the
Chamorro way there to show him where the
Chamorro staying hiding
okay, that's
Coincidentally that my uncle was there cutting
wood. I think for to make some kind of a it's
like a get up, you know, like
Like a shoe, but it's not a shoe is something
to put under your feet. Okay
The corn and sweet potatoes that your family
and others were growing
Did the Japanese take all of it, or did they
leave some?
No, there were some for the people in the
hiding area, too
When I was interviewing you last time, it was
sort of a big gap
between the time you discovered that the war
was over
and the time you saw your first American
Do you remember exactly how you found out that
the war was over?
Well, we were down here in the same region
hunting for coconut crop again. Right.
Is this for the Teixeira that you were hunting
down there?
This was the last time and I didn't know that
there was a peace from Japan.
I do not know whether Japan called for peace or not.
But I discovered later that probably there was
a peace because of the soldiers who were
standing on the side of the road.
And with a gun down there in front, they put it
on the front side.
It looked like an inventory.
They call for maybe to depart them to Japan.
Probably they'll take them out to Japan.
You mean their guns were laying on the ground?
Yeah, they put it on the ground.
All in front of them.
Maybe a roll call or I don't know.
One of those things.
Now you saw this while you were hunting for cocaine.
After we left the hunting area.
on our way up to the Sakaze area,
our last hiding area.
When we're returning that time,
because I have another friend with me at the time,
I saw those Japanese soldiers in the line of
the street
right there on the ... right here on Songsong. Mm-Hmm.
Point to point, I see that I recall they were standing,
and it's like an inventory.
Like, I don't know what they're going to do,
but the guns all in front. Yeah.
And for not very much further look, I hear the noise.
It's a truck.
It's an American truck coming in at the same
time on my behind, you know.
And then when I look back, I saw some star on
the top of the vehicle,
the side. I said, Oh, this is American.
You weren't scared?
No, I wasn't scared because
I wasn't aware that I'm a child.
And I mean, you know, I'm still a boy and
I don't have that kind of thinking about being
scared with the Americans.
My grandfather told me at the time that
those European people are rich people
and they say better those bombs that they throw
down, better throw us
the butter and the bread.
So that's what I'm warning my
my grandfather, Beata's father, that don't say
like that, grandfather,
because if they hear you, that's the right way
they're going to execute you
because they're going to talk.
As I think that's what they don't like.
So I give warning to my grandfather like that.
Please, grandfather, don't say like that.
Okay, so you...
So what?
But were you still working for the Taisho when
all this happened?
No more.
He let you go?
I just go, yeah.
Let me go already.
How did that happen?
Did you ask him if you could go back to your family?
No, because he just make me free to go back to
my family every now and then.
If I got nothing to...
He didn't tell me what to do, so I just tell
them I go to my...
to my family.
See, my father and my mother like that.
Then if I got something that he would tell me
tomorrow we go fishing or we go like that you
went fishing with him
Yeah sometime
Not every day, but sometime he probably he want
to eat fish
We did one time on them. I remember so between
the the last time that he let you go see your
family in Sacasa
And the time you discovered the war was over.
How long would you had you been with your
family very long?
Yeah, not very long after
I noticed that already
They, you know, I think they're taking them out
from the camp.
Because the American Turks were there already
and I see it's probably different.
In fact, I even followed an American guy going
toward that direction and then they put a small table.
The Japanese, I think, prepared that. They put
it right on the middle of the street.
I remember the Japanese took out the flak and
in the United States, I think he's a Marine,
holding the flak, and all I do, he scattered
the flak and then he punched with a bayonet,
you know, the knife, and all I do, I saw him
like that, the action.
Cut it up, huh?
Then after I saw that, I said, I don't know
what is going on, and then from there later,
I noticed that I think the Japanese can speak
English, another language.
You can speak English?
Probably I think the Japanese or the either way
with those things, but they communicate
then I didn't stay closer because you know like
that I
Discontinue watching them and then move
Now do you know what happened to the taste
shower after that did you ever see him a nice show?
Thank you. You call him. Thank you
Did you ever see him again after that? No more.
I never seen no more
I discontinued to go back like that, because I
see already Americans coming in and things like
that, and we have to secure ourselves there.
And then...
This American who wanted puspas?
Oh yeah, this is a very funny story, yeah.
Do you remember his name?
I don't know, I call him Whitey.
You just call him Whitey?
Yeah, I don't know his name. He's very funny,
this guy, you know.
And after...
Hey, Joe! You know, it's very funny. I like the
way they started with me, you know.
Now, after you took him to the Comfort Women,
did you see him again after that?
No, after that I never see this guy.
After I bring him down, because that's the one
you're gonna meet now.
Matthew Oka, the wife of that, they were young
at the time when I approached the mother.
Oh, that was his wife? Yeah.
Oh, that was Anna?
Yeah, Anna. That was the time they were young
ladies when I approached the mother.
auntie. So that was Anna who said... Anna,
Estela, there are several other sisters. She's
the one who said he wants your cousin. Yeah.
That was Anna. Yeah, Anna. Oh, that's great.
I'll have to ask her. They were there. Okay. I
don't know which one, but, you know, that
American soldier, you know, with the gun. Anna
Oka. They got some action and it's very funny.
Anna Oka, okay. Yeah, she was there. She was a
young girl. Now, did those comfort women, did
they service American soldiers? Maybe so,
because after I took them down, because that's
That's what my auntie told me after she
discovered that he doesn't want to eat the puspus.
You know, Puspus we call that it's like a
broth, you know, like some kind of like a
curry or I don't know what is that, but it's
come from the corn.
The corn and chicken?
Yeah, and chicken.
It's a very good food, that one.
That's interesting.
Yeah, very interesting food, you know.
Do they still, do they still make that here in rural?
Yeah, they could make it for you.
I know that, do they still?
Anna will, maybe Anna will remember what is
that puspus, it is very funny.
You might tell people, you know, like this, uh,
you know, like, uh, my friend and the other,
they would laugh like hell, you know.
They read that story, they really liked that part.
Okay. Now I'm curious now, when you left Rota
to go to school in Guam, did you have special
problems with the Guamanians because you were
from Rota?
It's not actually, it's a problem. When the
first time when my father put me on trial,
first he sent me to, I have a,
They're my father's sister, which I never seen
before, and I never knew her.
So I'm strange to that thing when, you know,
you never know and you never see.
It's like anybody maybe, you don't know what's the...
Even my grandfather's sister, but I don't know exactly.
So when I came over there to see whether I like it,
then I could attend the school. Probably less
than two months I'm already lonely and
you know always thinking about my mother and my
father at the time. But how did the
Guamanians treat you because there was a strong
feeling. Well the Guamanians when they
know because like my grandmother they talk
about me you know that I have a
grandson from my from her brother. He mentioned
that she mentioned that her
her brother left her when she was 17 years and
he was she was trying to ask
me how my grandfather if I remember very well
when I was back here and before he
died that was my grandmother instinct to find
out about her brother yeah so I
explained that my grand okay so yeah continue
you know my gun it's like my
grandmother you know because from my
grandfather the system my grandfather
That's the sister of your grandfather, but your
grandfather died when you were seven. Yeah, probably
It's maybe between six and seven. Okay, my
grandfather died
All I remember I told her that I remember he go
fishing sometime
If it's net and then I remember in the farm
He picking up some, you know, the tuba. It's
like a chamorro beer, you know from the coconut tree
I remember that my grandfather did those things and
I saw him sometime in the house, laying down
like that when I was small, but I didn't know
much what he was doing at the time.
Because he died before the war.
Now, she moved to Guam a long time ago then, huh?
Oh, she was always in Guam.
Oh, and he moved to Rota.
Maybe my grandfather, during the time he was, I
think, a merchant marine welder.
I don't know what they did during the time,
because I don't know much about his story.
Well, I interviewed some people from Saipan who
went to school in Guam after the war.
And the Guamanians made life difficult because
some people from Rota and Saipan went to Guam
as interpreters for the Japanese.
Oh, that was after the war, yeah. They sent
somebody here as like an interpreter.
Yeah, but did people give you a bad time in
Guam because you were from Rota?
Just like when you were going to school, did
other students?
I know what you mean. In the beginning, we have
shot in probably some kind of strange thing that
they are curious, you know, about tomorrow from
another island. Yeah. Because we have
certain accents, you know, when we speak that
we are in different accents. Yeah. Even though
we are
Chamorro, but we are in different accents. Yeah.
We tune up our, it's like probably from Texas,
from another country, from European. They speak
English but in a different tongue.
So at Chamorro, the same thing. When they
speak, they have certain accents, so
sometimes they're kind of curious and ask me
where I came from.
Then I told them that I came from here, some of
those that I met, you know. They said, oh,
like that, and they seem to, some being
bothered with some story that came out, some
old man,
you know, not the young people and all of those
old ones that probably they have some problem with
the Japanese and ask few questions about how
those people coming from here from Lothan, Saipan
sending it to Guam during the war. And I
mentioned sometime it's a funny thing that I said
I think those people they say for some reason
they are reason they will reason that
But they use them for interpreter, and maybe
not only interpreter, they use them for some
kind of reason like spying the other Chamorro,
maybe we don't know for sure, I don't know
for sure. Yeah.
And maybe this is like also like a security reason.
But did you have, when you were going to
school, did you have a difficult time?
No, not with the school kids or my classmates
or anybody, they never
asked me those kind of thing.
It's only on old people if I meet.
They're curious to ask about those things.
Did you know Felix Mendiola?
Where is he from? Rota?
The young Felix or the old Felix?
The old Felix. He was an interpreter in Guam
for the Japanese.
Felix Mendiola?
Was it Felix Mendiola or Felix...
Or Felipe Mendiola.
Felipe Mendiola, was that it?
Yes, Felipe Mendiola. I remember my godfather.
Was he an interpreter for the Japanese? Yes.
He was also one of them.
He was in prison for a while.
In one? I didn't know whether he was in prison.
He might be.
He is also one of those.
Yes. He's the uncle of Tommy Mignola.
Oh, okay.
That's the brother of Tommy Mignola's father.
Okay. Well, basically, those were all the
questions I had for the enlistment.
Sabino, yeah.