My name is Richard Meisheimer. Today is July
the 13th, 2012.
I'm interviewing Mr. Boyd, B-O-Y-D, R. Murphy,
M-E-U-R-P-H-Y, by telephone.
His phone number is 219-279-2796.
I'll have to get his address, Brookston, Indiana.
This interview is for the National Pacific War,
the Nimitz Educational Research Center,
Boyd, I want to thank you for taking time to do
this interview today, and I want to
thank you for your service to our country
during World War II.
Well, I would like to thank the people that
were back home who supported us.
That's right.
They went through everything. Right.
They done what's out so we could have. Right.
and we're not getting that now.
Oh, our country was the most united
it's ever been during that time.
We were afraid that something was going to
really happen here, and the people back here
were supporting us and kept us going.
That's right, that's right.
I agree with you on that.
And we haven't had that since. No.
Right, okay.
Now, the first thing I need to do
is get your mailing address there.
I didn't get that the other day.
What's your mailing address?
6-7-9-8 South, 980 West.
6-9-8 South, 980 West.
That is correct.
Brookston, and what's your zip code? 47923.
Now, the first thing I need to do
is read to you this agreement with the museum
to make sure this is OK with you.
The heading says, the United States
Pacific War and Texas Historical Commission
Oral History Project. The purpose of the
National Museum
of the Pacific War Oral History Project is to
collect, preserve, and interpret the stories of
World War II veterans, home-grown experiences,
the life of P. W. Nemitz and the O. Nemitz Hotel
by means of the tape-recorded interviews. Audio
recordings of such interviews become part of the
Nemitz Educational Research Center, the
archives of the National Museum of the Pacific War,
Texas Historical Commission. These recordings
made available for historical and other academic
research by scholars and members of the family
of the interviewee. We, the undersigned, have read
or heard the above and voluntarily offer the
National Museum of the Pacific War full use of
the information contained in audio recordings
and our written text of these oral history research
interviews. In view of the scholarly value of
the research material, we hereby assign
on life, title, and interest pertaining to it
to the National Pacific War Texas Historical Commission.
Is that okay with you?
Go ahead.
Now, the next thing I'd like to do
is get an alternative contact.
We find out that sometimes several years down
the road,
try to get back in contact
with a veteran who's moved or something.
Do you have a son or a daughter?
I am now living with a daughter.
Oh, okay.
And I have given her the farm.
And is this her phone number?
of this is it.
Okay, and what's her first name?
Marlita, M-A-R-L-E-T-A.
And her last name?
Miss, M-I-S-S-H.
Okay, and same address and number?
That is correct.
Okay, good.
All right, now-
Unless the politician changes.
I know what you mean.
What is your birth date? 12-23-21.
And where were you born?
I was born at this address.
Right there.
Were you born in that house? Yes.
And did you have brothers and sisters?
I had one brother.
Was he in World War II? No.
He was five years younger.
Now, on December 7, 1941,
Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.
Do you recall hearing about that?
I was laying in bed in the YMCA in Lafayette.
I was working for J.G. Finney at the time.
Well, it, I was upset.
I didn't want somebody attacking us.
Made you take care of everything. Farmer.
was your renting it?
Say again?
He owned it? Yes.
And was he able to keep it during the Depression?
And what all did you raise on your farm?
General farm.
Did you have livestock?
Livestock, chickens, turkeys, sheep, hogs.
Did you have a milk cow?
Livestock, yes.
Yeah, okay.
milk cows. I've done everything that possibly a
general farmer would do. I graduated from
high school in 1939. I went to work in a
grocery store as a clerk. Then I went to work for
J.C. Penney as a clerk on the floor. I came
home just before I was drafted and I had my
draft physical on June the 30th of 1942. I
reported for induction on August the 14th
at Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indianapolis.
So that's the day you went, go ahead.
So that's the day you went into the service,
August 14th of 42.
August 14th of 1942, that is correct.
And which branch did you go into?
Loaded on a troop train about the next day.
Went to Fort Eustis, Virginia.
Was in the Coast Artillery Anti-Aircraft.
I had more tests there and one morning there
was an order posted on the bulletin board
for a group of us to report out.
The CO said, ìYouíre qualified for OCS.î You
did not apply, why?
And we just got to the service and we didnít know.
We knew how if you were going to shoot
something up in the air, you didn T shoot where
it was at.
You shot ahead of it.
And he said, He ll teach you everything you
need to know, and if there s no other objections,
I expect your name on the roster in the morning.
So I signed up, as ordered, and then I was made
a corporal.
I went to math school for four weeks, started
out with a simple addition and subtraction
and in the fourth week we were doing
coordinates and that is preparing for OCS.
Atencio Now you didnt go through any kind of basic
training is that right?
Schwerin Oh, we learned to be soldiers, we marched.
When we first went in we used sticks for guns,
rifles at that time.
Then we used the Enfield, the Enfields come in.
That's an old British gun. Yes.
So how long was that schooling?
About three weeks.
And that's when they told you to sign up for
OCS after that, right?
It was during that period, yes.
And where did you take that basic training at?
My basic training was Fort Eustis, Virginia.
That was Fort Eustis, okay.
And that's at Williamsburg.
And I visited Williamsburg several times
and I was at the same pew that George
Washington did.
Oh, okay.
Anything you recall from your time there in
basic training?
Oh, not in particular.
But were your drill instructors pretty tough on you?
They had to be.
to break them from civilian life to Army life.
And the reason I said that, I'll tell you later.
Then you went to this math school.
I went to math.
We lived in tents, and every day we'd go to
math school.
and then I was sent down to Camp Davis, North
Carolina, which was where their OCS was, and
I was commissioned on April the 15th of 1943.
Egarthen Okay. And second lieutenant, right?
A second lieutenant and an anti-aircraft officer.
A- Okay.
Now how was that OCS?
F- It was tough.
A- Tell me about it.
F- I don T know. You learned to be, to do what
you were told, however it could be done.
A- Okay.
F- And you had to do what had to be done.
A- Okay.
F- And you had to learn to make other men do
that too.
A- Okay.
Did you learn how to make decisions?
You had to.
And a lot of physical training there also?
Very much.
If you run ten miles or something like that, we
could-a hundred push-ups was very easy.
Oh my goodness.
All that kind of stuff. Yeah.
And that was how long?
I graduated out of there on April 15th.
I was ordered to Fort Miss, Texas.
I was given ten days to get there and we
got-the company battalion was just being formed when
draftees and volunteers. We had to make them as
soldiers. When they first come in, some
of the wives were following and some of the
families were following and for two weeks
they could not see them. And you know who had
to meet them. You had to meet who was
coming in. And it gave them a place to live and
the new soldiers could not even see them.
A. Yeah, okay. Now what battalion was this?
F. I was in the 785th Automatic Weapons
Battalion and we trained enemy soldiers. And I
had learned
in OCS that some officers would never make it
in the front lines because their men would
shoot them. And you always want to make your
men like you. And I learned that and I have
men in places there at Fort Bliss that we would
be doing something and the men would
come up to me and say, ìLet us do that, sir.î
That makes you feel good, feels like Youíre
doing your job.
A. Thatís right. Now what kind of weapons did
you have?
E. Well, it was a forty millimeter.
A. Okay. Was that a single barrel?
E. Yes, a Bofor.
It was a Swedish gun.
We had the submachine guns and .45s and rifles.
Oh yes.
I don't mean submachine guns.
I mean like .30 caliber or .50 caliber?
We had both. Yeah.
And what did you live in there?
Tarp River shack.
A. Five men to a shack?
E. Not in my quarters, no.
A. No, well of course you'd be an officer, right.
E. That's right. It was a Dutch bull.
A. Yeah, right.
E. You know what El Paso's like.
A. Oh yes.
E. Coming from Texas, you know what it is down
there, Juarez and that.
A. Yep, I do, right.
During my OCS training, I was exposed to 90mm,
the 105s and searchlights. And I was ordered
to, when they needed 40mm men, I got out of OCS.
As the units were formed, that s where
they put the men. I remember where you lived, Jack.
You were probably there at Logan Heights also, right?
Yes, we were out there and there's a hospital
just south of there on the west side.
Beaumont Hospital. Yes.
And the main camp, Fort Bliss, is on east of there.
Right, right.
Well, you know about what I'm talking about.
Well, I guess-
Go over to the 4S and go up to Bull Fight.
I spent about sixteen months there.
Ebertson Well, okay, now on mine I didnt.
Lets see, Ive got another thing there.
During mywhile I was there training the men,
there was an order postednot an orderthere
was a posting on the board, if you wanted to
learn to fly, you could transfer and grade.
And on August 31st I received an order, and I
can give you the order number on that, Special
Order 243, out of Washington, D.C., signed by G.E
. Marshall, sending me to pilot training.
Went to San Antonio.
Then I went to Heimdallr, Arkansas for primary,
through PT-19.
Atencio What did you do in San Antonio?
Ebert It was more schooling and testing and
that kind of stuff.
Atencio About how long was that?
About two weeks I was a philologist.
I went to Pine Bluff, Arkansas.
That was primary?
That was primary.
Tell me about primary.
Well, you learn to fly.
That was the first time I'd ever been in an airplane.
And you say that was a PT-19? PT-19.
A. Okay. And is that a single wing or a bi-wing?
S. Single.
A. Single wing, okay. All right. Tell me about
that airplane.
S. Well, I thought it was a good airplane to fly.
A. Okay.
S. I used to make the-play around and make the
guys get down between the cotton rolls.
A. Okay. All right. You soloed there, right?
S. Oh, yes. You soloed after so many hours.
A. What was it like to solo?
Ebert. It was wonderful. Wonderful feeling that
you could take the airplane off the ground
and get it back, find the airport and all of
that. And we had auxiliary fields that
part of the training for landings was made at
and we could find that.
And you said that was Pine Bluff, Arkansas? Ebertson.
How were your flight instructors? Ebertson.
They were tough.
Anything in particular happen during that training?
We lost a couple, three men, I don't know.
Somebody tried to fly under a bridge under the
Mississippi and tore an airplane up a
little bit.
Ebertson. During that.
Clendenin. You did have some crashes then, is
that right?
Ebertson. Oh yeah, we had a lot of crashes.
Clendenin. Is that right?
Ebertson. During my training and I'll fill you
in on another training place where I trained
at and then was killed.
Clendenin. Okay. Now anything else you recall
from primary?
Ebertson. Nothing in particular.
Clendenin. Okay, then what happened?
Ebertson. I went to Independence County for basic.
Clendenin. Okay.
A few different, two different kinds of
airplanes there.
A BT-14, North American, and a consolidated BT-13.
Okay, now the first one, the BT-14, I mean what
kind of plane is it?
Both of them are low wing planes.
They're single engine, both of them are single engine.
Open cockpit or closed cockpit? AE.
They were closed cockpit. QF.
The other in primary was open cockpit, right? AE.
Open cockpit and you did not have a radio in primary.
But now in basic you did have a radio, right? AE.
I had a radio, yes. QF.
And there were two cockpits.
You had an instructor and yourself. AE.
You only rode the front cockpit. QF.
shooting landings and had a wind shift and I
landed with the wind instead of against it.
Atencio Uh-oh. Right.
Schwerin Yeah, that was fun.
Atencio Yeah.
Schwerin On a takeoff we just turned around and
took off back the other way.
Atencio Okay.
Schwerin And then I went to Lubbock, Texas for twin
Atencio Okay. And how long was your basic roughly?
Schwerin Three weeks.
Azarick Three months. Both primary and basic
and advanced runs.
Schwerin Okay. And where was advanced did you say?
Azarick Lubbock, Texas.
Schwerin Lubbock, okay. And tell me about that.
Azarick Well, that was a twin engine. I forget
the number of the airplane I flew there. Right
now. I do have records on it, but I don't have
it on hand right now.
A1 Was it a twin tail or single tail?
A2 Single tail.
A1 Okay. Was it the Cessna?
A2 I couldn't tell you. I don't remember that.
A1 Okay. All right. How many people did it carry?
A2 Two.
A1 Two.
A2 We had pilot and co-pilots.
A1 Okay. All right. Okay, go ahead. Tell me about
your training there then.
A2 Well, the one that I can really remember
it carry? Ebertson.
We had pilot and co-pilots.
A. Okay.
Okay, go ahead.
Tell me about the training there then. Ebertson.
Well, the one that I can really remember is a
night landing without any light on the field.
A. Oh? Eberston.
And no landing light.
A. Wow. Eberston.
We had a-they had truck flares marking the runway.
A. Oh, okay. Eberston.
And that was the main thing that I could
remember about there.
And up at Amarillo, the field up at Amarillo,
there was a high line right at the north end
of the runway.
You just had to come over before you set down.
But outside of that there wasn't anything in particular.
Now, Amarillo was part of the training at
Lubbock, right?
Well that was the, yes, you could sometimes fly
up there and land and then take off and
come back. They never crossed country for you.
You had to make and you had to know where
you were going. You had to learn to read the
maps and know how to get there.
Now when you were flying the twin engine, it
was just you and the instructor, no one
else in the plane?
Ebertson No, the instructor flew for a while, then
it was students.
Atencio You didn't have a navigator or anything like
Ebertson No, no way.
Atencio Alright.
Now you were going to tell me about some crashes?
What were the crashes that people were lost?
Ebertson I don't remember of any crashes.
Atencio Oh, okay.
Ebertson Oh, yes I do.
too. Somebody bailed out and the instructor saw
him before I did. The instructor Didn
T make it but the student did. That s all I
know. He always said, If you go down I can
take your body home.
Atencio What else happened there?
At Lubbock I received my wings on the 10th of
August of 1943 and I came home and got married.
I moved awful fast.
They were needing men and they were treating us fast.
I got married on August the 14th and reported
to Fort Worth.
wife and me did to learn to fly a B-24. The
B-24s, some of them were being built there
and the Army had one side of the airport and
the consolidated plant was on the other side.
And how was it to transition to the 24?
Eberts Oh, it was big. It was going from a two to
a four.
Schwerin Yeah. And the plane was much bigger too.
Eberts Oh, yes. The plane was much bigger and
we had
a lot more fun in it.
Schwerin Okay.
Eberts There was an open air theater about two miles
off the end of the runway and they finally come
down in order to turn your landing lights
off when you were taking off rather than
shining them on that screen. You know how honored
you guys are.
A. Oh yes, right, right. Okay. What all
happened there?
Nothing too much more than that. I was there
for three months.
Your wife came home and I was transferred to, I
think it was Salinas, California.
I think that s where. No, no, no. Yeah, I was
transferred to Salinas, California.
A. Yes. And the crew was formed there. And we
went back to Tonopah, Nevada to learn recruit
training for three months.
A. Okay. Tell me about that.
Well, that's where I will tell you there was
over two hundred men killed.
Oh, my goodness.
Look that up on the computer if you want to.
At Tonopah Air Force Base, there was over two
hundred men killed during training. Wow.
How did that happen?
I would say the upkeep of the equipment.
I had a gas leak one day down over Las Vegas,
and it was when I notified the tower when
I came back towards Tonopah, and when I landed,
until I landed, I was all right, and when
I was taxiing in I was all right, but I kept
that engine running and then when I stopped
that engine it caught fire. The hose clamp,
there had been an engine change, a hose clamp
on the gas line Hadn T been tight. See and
somebody wasn t paying attention to what they
were doing. And that s what you had to do when
you were training men. They had to double
check everything they've done and do it.
And sometimes it was hard to get them in to
realize and you had to be pretty rough on them.
I've heard people talk about the B-24s,
particularly in the Pacific, that they had a tendency
on takeoff to get gasoline fumes in the plane
and blow up.
Occasionally it, well, you had gas lines come
into just in front of your bomb bay. That's
where your sight gauges were of your wing tanks.
And I would say it was a bit impossible.
I've never had that possible. I've never had a problem.
Yeah, I've heard people talk about that in the B-24s.
And the people said to me, 24s were hard to
fly, but my train, I didn't think they were.
A- Okay. What else happened there?
A- Well, let's see. Then, well, I was there at
Tonopah for three months, and then we loaded
on a train and went through Reno with the men.
There was a trainload of us. We stopped
in Reno and you know every man got back on that
train because we knew we was going overseas.
I was surprised at that. But every man, we
didn't have a bit of trouble. My co-pilot
My co-pilot and me went and played bingo and
got enough to eat supper and got back on the
train. Went into a minute, received a plane, I
think LeMore or someplace south of San Francisco,
South of San Francisco, got a brand new
airplane. And the crew and me flew orientation
of the
instruments, went to San Francisco, I mean to
Sacramento, and was there about a day and
the orders were for us to fly someplace. We
didnt know if they were sealed at that
time and we couldn't open them up until we were
passed of no return to the States.
We flew to Hawaii and other islands, Canton,
Moana, Guadalcanal, and Yakutia.
Atencio When you left California, where did you go
Smith The first landing was Hawaii.
A. Hawaii, okay. How long were you there?
A. About two days.
A. Okay.
A. They took the bomb bay tanks out and put the
guns in the turrets.
A. Oh, okay. Did you get a chance to go into
Honolulu or anything?
A. Yes, I did.
A. Okay.
A. Because I had been an anti-aircraft officer.
A. Uh-huh.
A. And I knew an anti-aircraft officer over there.
there and I got a hold of him and he showed me
around the island. That way my wife could
know where I was too because he could write
back and tell her that I saw this man and
you already knew where he was. Otherwise we
learned to sense our mail.
Atencio That when you were there was there
still much
damage around?
Ebert Not that I remember. The only thing is I remember
part of where you was. We were told to make a
high approach landing, which you approached
a field at over a thousand feet, and you pull
the throttle back and point your nose down
short of the runway.
And the crew thought we was going in, because
you were going ahead and right down.
But the engineer was reading my airspeed, I
knew I had to control the airplane.
As long as I had airspeed I could control it.
And what field did you go into there, was it
Hickam Field? Yes.
And it no longer is there.
I've been over to Hawaii since then.
The field that I landed on was north and south.
The field now is east and west.
Right, right, okay.
Okay, and about when did you leave San
Francisco to go overseas?
Well, that was about three months after I
reported in to-
Atencio So probably December then, or November
or December?
Schwerin It would be around December.
Atencio Okay. December of 1943. Okay, then from
Hawaii, where did you go?
Schwerin Canton.
Atencio Okay. And did you refuel there, spend
the night?
Ebertson Yes, it's the night, refuel.
Atencio Okay, and then where?
Ebertson Tarawa.
Atencio Tarawa, okay.
Ebertson Yes.
Atencio Same thing there?
Ebertson Yes. And so what the guys had to go
against in capturing that island.
Atencio Okay.
Ebertson Because the landing craft were about a
quarter of a mile offshore.
Atencio Yeah, okay.
Atencio So you had to go against that island?
Ebertson Yes.
Atencio Okay.
had to go against in capturing that island
because the landing craft were about a quarter
of a mile offshore.
Atencio Yeah, okay.
Schwerin And then I went to Guadalcadao, landed on
a steel mat.
Atencio Okay.
Okay. November of 1943 is when we took Tarawa.
Atencio Now you got me on that, but I don't remember.
Schwerin Yeah, well I've got a chronology here. I'm
looking at-it says here-November 20th, 1943,
Battle of Tarawa. So it hadn't been
taken too long when you got there then.
in. I went overseas. Every place I trained at
was about three months. I didnt go overseas
until, uh, forty-five. Forty-five?
Oh, okay.
She went overseas.
I was, uh, forty-five.
Oh, okay.
Early forty-five when I went overseas.
And then, uh...
In early forty-five? Yes.
What, January, February?
I don't remember that. Early.
Go ahead.
I'm sorry.
And, uh, then I went to Biak.
Uh, from Guadalcanal.
and then I went to Biak from Guadalcanal.
And I left the airplane there and went back to Nadzab
and learned to, went to jungle school.
Learned how to live out in the jungle.
And then they were starting to need men on up north
and we flew up, landed at Peleliu.
And then we went to Clark Field, and that's
where we joined the 22nd Bomb Group.
Atencio Was that your first combat then?
Ebert Oh, I hadn't had any combat yet.
Atencio Yeah, I was about to say no combat at that
Ebert No, no combat.
Atencio Okay.
Were you on Anguar at Peleliu, that area?
A. At Peleliu, they had a high hill off the end
of the runway and we were given the stories
about the bombing of it there. I don t know
whether you ever heard of them or not.
A. Go ahead.
Now they had to get delayed fuses for their
bombs because they were bombing and the Japanese
would leave and then when the bombs would go
off and then they would come back.
So they finally put in delayed fuses so some of
the bombs would go off and some of them
would wait a while.
Atencio Yeah, right.
And when they came back then the bombs would go off.
Right, okay.
Well, just like the tripwires they use down in
the jungle.
Well, you learned what you could eat and what
you could drink.
Survival training.
In case you crashed into a jungle somewhere or something.
And New Guinea was an uncharted island.
There were some high points there and you
didn't know how high they were.
Ebert. Right, right. Okay.
Ebert There are several planes that went down
in that area. Well, I think here in the last
year they found a couple of them.
Ebert That s right, that s right. Yeah.
Ebert In New Guinea, if a plane went down, a lot
of times the Natives would bring them back to
the bases.
Ebert Right, right. Okay. Now, near Peleliu,
there was another island called Angar, A-N-G-U-A-R.
A. I know the 22nd was at Angar, but I was
never there. I went directly to Clarkfield.
A. Okay. All right. Yeah, they went to Angar
and then to Clarkfield. So you went directly
to Clarkfield. Okay.
A. I went directly to Clarkfield.
A. And then what happened?
A. They were getting ready to move on to
Okinawa. They were bombing at that time Formosa and
Okinawa and really I think because I had ground
force training I was put out on the beach
to help on the loading of an LST.
Atencio Oh, I see.
Atencio I think, personally I think Thatís what
happened to me and the reason we didnít
get to fly missions.
Atencio Oh, okay.
Atencio Because I had supposedly to know a
little bit of what I was doing.
Atencio So when did you fly your first mission?
Ebert I never got that down. After my mission I
flew off of Motobu, the North Strip in Okinawa.
Atencio Oh, okay.
Ebert And it was after they had asked for peace.
Atencio Oh, okay.
Ebert The day before they shot at us.
And they loaded us up with a bomb and we were
supposed to go up in a hundred ship formation
but the fourth ship shrunk in a shell hole.
So the mission was changed and we went in three
ship formations.
I flew wing of the airplane and we went over
Nagasaki and supposedly down to about 500.
I couldn't tell you because I was watching that
lead airplane.
My crew said that they had put a mast down
below it.
Atencio And that was your only combat mission, right?
Ebert That was the only mission.
I'm only credited with one mission, yes.
Atencio And that was what, August the 14th?
Ebert I couldn't tell you the exact date.
Atencio Well, the surrender was August 15th, so.
Ebert Okay.
Atencio Was it the day before the surrender?
Ebert It could have been, yes.
Atencio Okay.
Ebert And when I was-
A. It could have been, yes. And when I joined
the 22nd Bomb Group, a man greeted us and
said, ìYou always wanted to know where people
were From.î He was from Indianapolis and
he said, ìIíve got a Euchre partner for Tonight.î
And a Euchre is almost an Indiana game.
He was from Indianapolis and he now lives in
Maitland, Florida. And you say you were
The 22nd Bomb Group has a reunion coming up in
October in Austin, I think it is. Between
Dallas and San Antone and that's Austin, isn't it?
Atencio Right, uh-huh. Okay. And when is it
going to be?
Ebert Just a second. It is the sixty-third time that
members of the twenty-second have gotten together.
Atencio Okay.
and the date is October the 24th through the 27th.
And if you want to contact somebody,
I've got that information.
Now, are you all going to tour the Nimitz Museum
while you're down there? Pardon?
I already toured that.
Oh, you've already toured that, okay.
Yeah, they are going down there, yes.
Okay, and when did you tour their museum?
Oh, that's been a few years ago.
I had a daughter living in San Antonio and my
wife and me went up there. There is a place
out north of San Antonio that is a good place
to eat. We went on up to Fredericksburg and
went to the museum there.
Atencio That was just two or three years ago?
My wife's been gone for five years, never
before that, I couldn't tell you exactly.
They doubled the size of the museum four years
ago, so you ought to go back because it's
really a lot bigger and different now.
Well, it-do you belong to USAA? Uh-huh.
They have a pretty good savings interest rate
of 2 percent, I think.
That s better than what you can get out of the
bank. I d see somebody and I get in with
the U.S.A.. I don t know exactly what you have
to do. The reason I joined, my son was in
Hawaii and he said, Dad, if you belong, I can
get a lower insurance rate on my car.
And then after the war was over, I thought I'd
get a chance to get home.
I put myself on some orders.
I helped close the 22nd down.
It went over to A-20s, and I forget the number
of the unit.
And I put myself on orders to come home, but it
didn't work.
I got sent up to Japan and was put in a utility
company as a motor pool officer.
I was at Motobu where the Japanese trained
their kamikaze pilots.
I have a picture of one of their kamikaze
planes and then we moved into Tokyo.
I run the motor pool I was operating on.
We were helping rebuild Tokyo and I had all
little kids around me and I did not know how
run a lot of the equipment that I was in charge
of, but I did try. Have you ever run a big backhoe?
Atencio No, I Haven T.
Schwerin Okay. We had a drag line and a backhoe. We
had bulldozers.
Atencio Right.
Schwerin Drive movers and that kind of stuff in
my motor pool. And if I was ordering men
to do things, I was going to learn how-see what
their problems were going to be.
And I couldn't operate them near as good as
they could, but I knew a little bit of
what their problems were if I had to order them
out to do something.
not the 22nd Bomb Group anymore, is it?
A. No. It was with the, let me see here,
utility company.
Q. Utility company, okay.
A. Yeah. We had to, for 5th Air Force, had a
utility company taking care of their utilities
and different things like that.
Q. Right.
We had one day we was doing something and we
burned a water main in Tokyo and then we
couldn t find anybody that knew where to set it
off at. I had a man that was a bridge builder
and a welder. He said, I can weld it. I said,
you go do it. And he welded a plate over it.
Somehow or other, I don T know. I didn T go out
and see it. But that s the kind of things
that we done there in Tokyo. And I was invited
into Holmes and, you know, flew B-25s over
Tokyo. Before we moved into Tokyo, I flew
co-pilots of the B-25s and I flew over Tokyo.
And then when I was in Tokyo I flew an L-5, a
little liaison plane that I could have a
lot of fun with.
And I've got pictures from the air of damming
and things like that.
And I was in homes of Japanese.
I couldn't speak Japanese and they couldn't
speak English.
But they'd bring out the family album and point
out pictures of some of their families
and they, with their hands, they had been
killed in the bombing. I was wearing wings.
And I could have been flying that airplane, but
they invited me into their home. And we
had more trouble with the GI because of things
that happened coming up than we did with the
Japanese. At the end they did not want it, the
war at all.
Atencio They were friendly to you then, right?
Schwerin Oh, very much so.
Atencio Okay. All right. So how long were you
in Japan?
A1 Oh, let's see. I come out of there in, how
do you say, January, I think about 1946.
A1 Okay. So you were there, well you went in
just after the surrender, right?
A2 Oh, yes.
A1 So probably in September you went in and
left in January, about four months?
A2 Yeah, about that.
I had been to Yokohama, I knew, and I had my
own jeep, I could drive wherever I wanted to.
Have you ever driven on the other side of the road?
A. Yes, I have, right.
A. Okay, well, when I come home and got in the
car, I went to that side.
And then when you come home, did you-you had to
really think to get back on the right side.
Well, I wasn't there that long to get that
acclimated to it.
Well, I had been driving my own jeep for quite
a little while and I would just have it. Yeah.
And about two or three weeks was the longest I
ever drove on the wrong side. Yeah.
Well, I drove it for months. Yeah.
What's some other things that happened there in Japan?
Well, I couldn't tell you too much more about that.
And like I said, the kids, little kids were
around us wherever we went.
This is side two of tape one with Boyd Murphy.
Okay, little kids were around you everywhere
you went, and then what?
In fact, they were almost a nuisance, but you
didn't want to turn them away because
they were wanting to learn our ways of doing things.
In the world today, if you put little kids out,
there wouldn't be any fighting, but we've
got too many politicians.
Q. Now when you were in Japan, did you ever see
very many of the military age men?
A. The military men?
Q. Military age, not necessarily in the
military, but military age.
A. Yes, and I ll tell you about my, one of my
gunners, my ball gunner was put up there
and him and another military, Japanese military
man, worked together and doing something.
I lost my crew completely, but I did know that
he and a military man did work together
in supplies or something. And at one place I
did get, I come down, I came in with a temperature
come in from work and I was running a
temperature mat and the man that we had taking
care of
our quarters, put me in bed and covered me up
and gave me shocky and kept me and stayed
all night with me. And the next morning I had
sweated out. They kept me covered up and
and it, like I said, the majority of them
didn't want the war.
They had been drafted into it.
Anything else happen there in Japan?
Not that I know of, but I can think of right off.
I visited Tommy, which is a resort town.
That's where they get the hot water right out
of the ground to heat their buildings.
And Yokohama, and I saw the one-man subs that
were parked there.
In Tokyo Bay.
I just drove around. I'd fly around over Japan
and then I'd go get my jeep and drive around
and see the thing from the ground.
A. Okay. Now in flying the Liaison Airplane,
what was the purpose of doing that?
F. Pardon? A pilot had to get four hours a
month flying time.
A. Okay.
to pay.
Atencio Okay. It was just to get your flight time?
Schwerin That was to get my flight time. Iíd go out
through, I think Nachikawa, I think Thatís what
it was. Itís been so many years ago
I donít remember.
Atencio Okay.
Schwerin And I was checked out in it and then
all I
had to do was go out and sign my name at
operations and check the weather maps and check
a parachute
out and go up and fly.
What did you live in there in Japan?
I lived in what was called the Tokyo Electric Building.
Five of us lived in the same room, a large room.
In that room they had telephone exchange.
In that building they had telephone exchange.
Across the street was a big theater and it was
part of Japan that wasn't bombed.
Atencio When you were over there, did you ever see
Schwerin No.
Atencio Okay.
Schwerin MacArthur was a man for the job
because he
New Burel Mine, and that was our feeling. A-20s?
and you've already interviewed Anderson.
A- Right, Roger Anderson, I interviewed him, right.
S- Yeah.
A- But he was in the...
S- 33rd, I think.
A- Just a second, I got it right here.
Well, I don't have it.
He was in the 19th Bob Squadron.
S- 19th, okay.
A- Yeah, he was in the 19th, right.
S- Okay.
A- Okay.
Anything else you recall from your time overseas?
S- Nothing particular.
There was a long old boat ride coming back.
And you came back about when?
January of 46, did you say?
I don't remember.
How was that boat trip coming back?
What happened?
There was a long old train ride across the
United States.
We landed at Seattle.
and come to Chicago.
Discharge separated at Camp Atterbury.
About what date?
Down here right now.
Would it have been the spring of 1946 or when?
A. Okay. Did you stay in the Reserves?
S. Yes.
A. Okay. Were you reactivated or anything?
S. No, because I was a farmer.
A. Okay. All right.
S. Part of the guys that weren't farmers were
called back up. They flew in Korea.
A. Okay.
S. And the Berlin Airlift.
A. Okay.
S. I'll see them, part of them in October.
A. And what was the highest rank you got to?
S. Major.
A. Major?
When did you make that?
S. I don't know.
I've got the paper here someplace.
A. That's okay.
How many total years did you have in the service?
S. Well, active was about four and I didn't
stay active long enough.
I've had about sixteen years. I should have
stayed longer. I'm twice better than Forsyth.
A. Right. So you didn't actually retire then?
S. No. I have two discharges. I have two Army
serial numbers because I was enlisted then.
A. Right. To start with. S. Yes. And I can
repeat both of them.
A1 What are they?
A2 Oh, 3-5, 3-6, 5-7, 8-8.
A1 Okay.
A2 My enlisted man and officer is a 1-0-5-4-7-3-0.
A1 Something youíd beat into your head.
A1 Thatís right.
Thatís right.
Now, when you got out, did you have any trouble
adjusting to civilian life?
A2 Oh, not in particular too much.
I was afraid of what I had trained.
A1 Okay.
A2 I was afraid of what I had trained.
A1 Okay.
A2 I was afraid of what I had trained.
A1 Okay.
A2 I was afraid of what I had trained.
A1 Okay.
A2 I was afraid of what I had trained.
A1 Okay.
to civilian life? Ebertson Oh, not in
particular too much, but I was afraid of what I
had trained
men to kill. Things like that would happen,
especially in taverns when the guys got a
little bit too much to drink. I was afraid that
might happen. But it didn T happen to
to me, but maybe that was because I had done
the training. I don T know. But when you train
a man to kill with his hands, that can be
easily done. And it takes a while to get that
out of it.
A- Yeah, right. How was the morale in your unit
during World War II?
A- As far as I know, it was up and go.
Everything was go. And if you didn T, you had
to see
why. If the enlisted man had a party and you
saw an enlisted man sitting around by himself,
He went and saw why he was sitting by himself
and got him engaged with the rest of them.
You had your men working together.
You always got your men together.
A1C1 Did you ever have any trouble with malaria
or anything like that?
A1C2 No.
A1C3 No.
A1C4 Okay.
A1C5 I would have all the vaccinations that you had.
A1C4 Did you take Atamrin for the malaria?
A1C5 Yes.
We were yellow.
A1C5 Okay.
And during OCS, we were exposed to poison gas
because we had to know what the odor was
if we were to encounter it, so we could order
them in to put their masks on.
So when you learned to fly, you were taken up
in a tank to a high altitude and the oxygen
is all left. And on the buddy system you work
on that and when you lose all your oxygen
you can write about three lines and then you re
gone. And then your buddy would put your
back on you, you say, ìDid I write that?î or
not write it or something.
A1 Did you get home from World War II with any souvenirs?
A2 Oh, Iíve got some kamikaze, or Iíve got the
sword that the Japanese some used. I donít
have the little one which he would cut his
stomach open with, but the larger one that
they cut his head off with, I have one of those.
Anything else in the way of souvenirs?
I don T know in particular right now. I ve got
some shell casings and that kind of stuff,
the small caliber. But just in case I don T
have the whole shell.
Atencio What would you consider your most frightening
Atencio Oh, my frightening time?
Atencio Yes, Sir.
Atencio When I was flying from San Francisco to Reno,
approaching the mountains there, we were flying
I don t know, I can t remember the
the altitude, but all of a sudden I was against
the seatbelt and the altimeter was spinning.
I dropped a thousand feet. I hit a downdraft
and that scared me a little bit there. I told
the crew to put their oxygen mask up, we re
going to over ten thousand so we don T hit
that again. And when you do that you have to
have oxygen.
Atencio Did you ever see any U.S. show shows anywhere?
Ebert Oh, yes. And on Chihuahua I saw a guy go
out in the rain to watch a show.
Atencio Oh, okay. What was the show?
Ebert I don't remember. I thought he was silly.
Atencio Okay.
Ebert Because I was on my way over and he'd been
over there a long time and at the end of
Okinawa I was doing that.
You just went out in any kind of weather and
watched the show.
Any big names you saw?
I don't remember on that.
Did you have any experience with the Red Cross?
If you want to see something, look up Typhoon
Louise on your computer.
In 1945, the typhoon went directly over Okinawa.
Red Cross did have some food that we could eat
then, and then they had to fly food into
us from Saipan.
I dont remember the date, but the Okinawa was
in the eye. It lasted for twenty-four hours.
was pretty bad. There was another one on
September 17th, but that wasnt called Louise.
Atencio It was Typhoon Louise, it was the worst one,
Atencio Yes, it just dumped everything around. All
the food was stored above high tide. And the
waves were coming in, I was just guessing,
at a hundred feet.
Anything that was stored on the beach, and the
ships, I saw ships up on dry land.
Atencio Did you ever hear Tokyo Rose on the radio?
Schwerin Oh yeah.
Atencio What did you think of her?
Schwerin Well, she was just doing what she was told
to do.
Atencio Okay.
Schwerin I got a picture of Radio Tokyo.
Atencio Okay.
Schwerin The outside says Radio Tokyo.
Atencio Okay.
When you cross the equator, do you have any
kind of a ceremony?
Azaire No, not in our airplane, no, and at the International
Dateline too.
You got two things you do when you went over
there, when you cross the equator and when
you cross the Dateline.
Did you get your shell back card when you
crossed the equator?
I don't remember.
It was hot down in that area.
Now April 12, 1945, President Roosevelt died.
Did you hear about that?
Probably did.
Any reaction to it?
Not that I can remember.
In May the 8th of 1945, Germany surrendered.
How about that?
Well, part of the war was over and we were
going to get more help.
Any kind of a celebration?
Not that I know of.
Then, of course, on August the 15th, when Japan
surrendered, did you have a celebration then?
Not any celebration, no.
No celebration, okay.
Do you know where Ernie Pyle was shot? Right.
On the little island of Yosemite.
I have stood on the same spot he was shot.
And from the main island of Okinawa, you could
see that island and another officer and me
checked out a C-47 and flew over there and took
our pictures because in the Yank we always
read about him.
And then we flew back, and now they take a tour boat.
A1 How many reunions have you been to?
A2 About four.
Q. Okay. And did you use your GI Bill for
anything when you got out?
A. Yes, I went to school.
Q. Where did you go?
A. It was a farm school.
Q. Farm school, okay. Right. Okay. Now what
ribbons and medals did you get?
A. I couldn't tell you. I don't know.
Q. Okay.
I just looked at my orders and I've got-there's
four of them that I could have.
But as far as the medals, I don't have any.
A. Okay.
Yeah, you probably got the Atlantic-Asiatic Pacific.
You got the Victory Medal, American Defense.
All of those are standard medals people got.
F. Yeah.
Well, as I couldn't tell you, I looked at my
discharges a while ago.
A. Okay.
Anything else you recall from your time in
World War II?
Not in particular.
What were some of those spots where you needed power?
Flying over the mountains.
Okay, all right.
Flying too low. Uh-huh.
Flying down, making guys get in the cot and roll.
roll and get down. Make guys try and jump out
of the boat instead of laying down in
the boat. Things like that. Anything an 18, 19,
20 year old guy would do. But it was a
learning experience too. You had to learn to do
that and be able to control yourself.
And you had to have power, and the civilian
planes did not have it.
The airliner was nothing but a bus driver, and
they let us into the cockpit.
Normally people are never let into the cockpit
anymore, but we were let in, and so the instruments
I want to thank you again for your time today
and for your service to our country.
Youíve done the same thing.
Youíre right.
Well, I put my time in.
Thatís right.
You were called upon and at a time, possibly
not as desperate a time, but you put time in.
I did what I was told to do, right?
Yeah, that's right.
That's the end of this tape.