The North Texas Daily (Denton, Tex.), Vol. 55, No. 16, Ed. 1 Tuesday, September 28, 1971 Page: 2 of 4
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FAOt 2—THE NORTH TEXAS DAILY
Tuesday, September 28.1971
DAILY: As you see it, of what does
your job as academic vice-president consist?
FERRE: My job, as 1 sec it, is to be
sure that quality education takes place on
the campus—to sec that quality education
If you had an administrative vice-pres-
ident, some areas now under the academic
vice-president would be under the admin-
istrative vice-president. Some things under
administrative vice-president would be
under the academic vice-president.
DAILY: Do you think having been a
faculty member helps you now to see both
sides of the situation?
FERRE: 1 would say that for academic
affairs, it's absolutely essential that a man
have been a faculty member in terms of
chairmen and deans. It helps with other
areas, but is not absolutely essential in
other areas. I think the further away you
are from the classroom the more difficult
it is to be sensitive to student concerns
and to get a good education—a high qual-
ity of education.
As a faculty member you're striving to
protect academic freedom and due process.
You seek to improve education techniques
for creating a quality faculty. You are
concerned with the environment in which
teaching goes on. As an administrator, you
seek to make sure these things happen also,
but you're the one to whom they address
their grievances. It's easy for faculty mem-
bers to have a partial picture and therefore
stress his position with great strength. An
administrator, unfortunately, has to take a
rather full position. Therefore, he's not able
to stress certain areas to which he might
otherwise address himself.
DAILY: What is the self-study North
Texas is now doing and why is it being
FERRE: We are asking each school or
college to appoint a review committee to
examine in some depth, (1) the strength
and weaknesses of that particular college
or school as compared to arbitarary peri-
od of, say, five years ago. Is that particular
college stronger or weaker? What about
morale? The quality of the faculty? Im-
pact on students? (2) Seek to project goals
and aims that can be realized within the
next five years for that particular college
or school. What should emphasis be on in
the next five years? What about the qual-
ity of leadership necessary to lead that
school or college to that particular goal or
The second major thing is that we es-
tablish certain priorities with the amount
of money appropriated. Let us look serious-
ly at our progress. We can't do and be
everything to every one. We need to get up
a priority list. These are the programs we're
going to develop, to strengthen. Our aim
is going to be quality education so that what
we do, we do well. We want to appeal to all
We have a responsibility to those in the
lower area of the SAT scores—like 600 to
900—but we also have a responsibility to
those with scores of 1150 or 1200 and
above. Your quality students are going
more and more to schools where they can
get a quality education. If we're going to
attract these students, we must develop a
quality honors program that is creative
and that allows for full expression for stu-
The tendency of education has far too
often been to focus on the medium group.
Those below catch up or sink. Those above
are not challenged or allowed to develop
their own interests. We must come to grips
with the fact that there are different qual-
ities of students. The same education does
not necessarily fit all students. Look at
core curriculum. If, in effect, the core cur-
riculum is not what every educated person
should have been exposed to, we want to
see if those kinds of courses that do pro-
duce an "educated" person are established.
Our concern is to be what students want
and need in terms of the kind of education,
the quality of education he is receiving,
rather than protecting any present empire
any department may have built in any
school or college.
DAILY: What is North Texas' policy
on tenure and what are your feelings about
FERRE: The North Texas State Uni-
versity policy on tenure is rather hard to
define, not in terms of written statements,
but in terms of its unwritten statements.
Tenure is available at North Texas State
University to all ranks—instructor, assist-
ant professor, associate professor and full
I have strong feelings that tenure ought to
be restricted to the full professor and as-
sociate professor level, and on some rare
occasions, on the assistant professor level.
Thus, tenure should not be available to the
We must be careful to distinguish be-
tween tenure as tenure and tenure as a
safeguard for academic freedom and due
process. I believe academic freedom and
due process are the rights of every facul-
ty member, be he tenured or not tenured.
But if tenure is granted without very care-
ful screening, you can develop a faculty that
can become complacent and where there
will be little opportunity to bring in the
necessary new, young, creative minds.
If tenure is viewed as a right of a faculty
member for having stayed at North Texas
for two, three or five years without regard
to whether he has made a significant con-
tribution to research and teaching, then
we'll be unable to upgrade the quality of the
faculty. And the quality of the faculty is
essential in the upgrading of the quality of
Tenure should be granted only to those
for whom a case can be made—that they
are making a special, unique contribution
to the education process here at North
Texas State University.
Thus, when a question of tenure arises,
the argument will not hinge on why he
should be granted tenure. The brunt of the
argument will be on the faculty member
rather than on the administration.
DAILY: Right now, what do you see as
the major problems facing North Texas?
FERRE: The priority obviously is fund-
A quality education is more expensive
than appropriated funds can achieve. Thus
there must be funding outside of appropri-
ated funds. We can do a good educational
job with appropriated funds but we cannot
give a quality education with appropri-
Secondly, we must somehow develop
again the intellectual climate. A quality
education takes place in an intellectual
atmosphere. The intellectual atmosphere
can be poisoned just as surely as our physi-
cal atmosphere. Here we're choking on our
own smog. Students are not really con-
vinced or certain why they're here—what
are their legitimate complaints. That's
true also of the faculty at times. The at-
mosphere has been polluted by pouring in-
to it excess concerns and in contemporary
terms, we're no hospital, baby, and we're
no playpen, either. We're not here to deal
with the sick or the playboy. We're here
to make available quality education. It
has to do with the training of the mind
and development of a value system that can
support the individual and society and
help the student become a contributing
person to the world in which he lives.
We get so tied up with so many extran-
eous concerns that sap our energies, we
become emotionally drained and lose our
vision, and the atmosphere becomes pol-
I am concerned about our physical en-
vironment. I'm even more concerned about
our intellectual and spiritual one. If stu-
dents are not able to receive here a qual-
ity education, students have a just com-
plaint. We must listen to them and we must
respond in an affirmmative way. But we're
not going to reduce the university to either
a hospital or a playpen.
I am sympathetic with the sick, but they
belong some place besides here, and to turn
the university into a glorified motel is con-
trary to good educational policy.
DAILY: Are there any other areas in
which you see immediate problems?
FERRE: I can think of many other areas
but I prefer to wait until I can make
better judgments in these areas.
DAILY: You speak of intellectual pol-
lution. Specifically, what pollutes an in-
FERRE: Anytime students are preoccu-
pied with their freedoms to such an extent
that they allow their private life style to
take precedence over their primary reason
for being here—which is to observe how
problems are solved, what constitutes good
reasoning, to develop enough factual ma-
terial upon which to make judgements that
are reliable—then the atmosphere becomes
polluted by waste material that is dis-
charged from the individual at the expense
of the community. You're here to engage
in critical analysis. This has to take place
between students and faculty, but also be-
tween faculty and faculty and students and
students. The only place critical thinking
has taken place is one hour in class.
Freedom means not being impaired to
achieve a good education. Thus it may be
true that at times it may seem the admin-
istration may develop what students in-
terpret as their freedom. But students can
deny freedom to their fellow students and
not engage in the kind of critical discussion
and study with each other that is absolutely
essential for good teaching to take place.
Freedom must never be identified with
license to do what one pleases or chooses.
That is not freedom. That's what he chooses
or pleases and which fulfills the purposes
of one part of the community.
Even academic freedom does not mean
license to teach what you want. It means
you're protected when you teach responsib-
ly within a given area. Those who would
suppress knowledge in that area look back
at the joint statement on rights of students.
DAILY: What action would the admini-
stration take if another situation arose
like that of Mrs. Elizabeth Ann Duke?
FERRE: As far as I understand Betty
Ann Duke's case, the issue was one of due
process. I'm firmly committed to due pro-
cess for every person, just as I'm committed
to academic freedom. The constitution
guarantees it. I would seek to uphold due
process and academic freedom. Part of the
problem was the failure to spell out clear-
ly the terms under which a teaching fellow
is offered a contract. We are now in the
process of writing a statement which will
be used for all teaching fellows so that
we can understand clearly what their rights
and obligations are.
In the past most universities have oper-
ated on a rather assumed understanding of
what is involved. University education was
for the few—it was a very small group
of professors and faculty members who
carried on the task of education in the high-
er levels. You sort of breathed in what
was expected of a good faculty member.
Our understanding now is that the courts
want it to be written out, clearly stated
with as little ambiguity as possible. We'll
try to fulfill the court's wishes as closely
as we can.
DAILY: Will you appeal Betty Ann
FERRE: Betty Ann Duke's case will
be appealled, centered on the third objec-
tion of Judge William Wayne Justice, that
there was no opportunity for her to have
an impartial hearing on this campus. I
hope this is not so—I hope a faculty mem-
ber can get a fair and impartial hearing
on the campus of North Texas State Uni-
versity. I firmly believe this is so. I will
seek to see that it remains so.
DAILY: What i* your relationship to the
Faculty Senate and where is it going?
FERRE: Excellent, I hope, I helped
organize the faculty senate at TCU. The
Faculty Senate is important in the life of
the university. It is my hope that some
day we may have a University Senate. A
Faculty Senate should initiate policy; the
implementing of policy has to be an admini-
strative concurrence. Thus the University
Senate would be able to accomplish more
than what a faculty senate could do.
DAILY: Were you involved in the peace
movement at TCU?
FERRE: I'd like to restate the question
in terms of the peace movement. I'm in-
volved in the concern for peace. I do this
as an individual and my own understanding
of committment to the Christian faith. 1
will continue to witness as an individual
against the destructiveness of war; its out-
datedness. There can be constructive use
of force but there is a very thin line. A man
who says he is against war doesn't neces-
sarily mean he's against the constructive
use of force. We are not yet at the kingdom
DAILY: Did you plan and/or participate
in peace demonstrations at TCU?
FERRE: In my own way 1 participated.
I didn't feel then, and I do not feel now,
that demonstration is the most effective
way to achieve goals and aims of the peace
movement. I allow for difference of opinion
as to what is the most effective way to work
for peace. I have been at mass rallies. I
think the time of demonstration and mass
rallies in terms of effectiveness in bring-
ing about change, has so greatly diminished
as not to be effective. I do not see myself
participating in those areas.
These are not the only ways to bring
1 will continue to work in my own way
for changes in peace, taking a stand similar
to that of Wayne Morse.
DAILY: Are you against the war in
FERRE: Yes. Absolutely and unequivo-
DAILY: What would be your attitude
toward campus demonstrations?
FERRE: It seems to me that demon
strations occur when you have an insensi-
tive administration. They're the last re-
sort when students cannot be heard. We
a sensitive administration. We would like
to anticipate the problems. As long as the
doors are open, and serious conversation
can take place, I see very little need for
Dr. Ferre Shows
Lack of Trust
Dr. Gustave Ferre, vice-president for academic affairs, has taken the first
step toward slamming the door on President C. C. (Jitter) Nolen's "open
Last week Dr. Ferre was contacted by the Daily and asked if he would be
willing to do a dialogue for publication. (The subsequent dialogue runs
above.) An appointment for the interview was made. Two days before the
original interview was to have taken place, Dr. Ferre's secretary contacted
the Daily to say that not only would Dr. Ferre not allow the interview to be
tape-recorded, but also that he wanted a written list of questions which were
to be asked, prior to the dialogue.
Certainly it is Dr. Ferre's prerogative to deny an interviewer use of a tape
recorder, although both President Nolen and Dr. Rollin Sininger, vice-
president for student affairs, had allowed taped dialogues. However, for
an administrator to ask for a list of questions prior to an interview hints of
a basic lack of trust and confidence on his part. No large newspaper would
consent to such a request and the Daily did not.
The day before the dialogue was conducted. Dr. Ferre met with the Daily
editor and a staff member to discuss time and place for the interview. That
day Dr. Ferre very candidly said that he would not permit use of a tape
recorder because, "if you write the interview, I can always say you misquo-
Is this the "frank, open and honest communication" of which President
Nolen speaks? If so, that "open door" policy so widely proclaimed by Presi-
dent Nolen and publicized by the administration is no more than a fascade,
a sham, to delude students into thinking they can talk to an administrator
and be heard with an open mind If Dr. Ferre or any other member of the
administration speaks of accusations of misquotation before an interview
takes place, the interview itself becomes almost meaningless in regard to
objectivity and content.
But far more serious than this is the implication that a lack of trust is
present when a student speaks to an administrator. Unless the two can dis-
cuss issues very frankly, honestly and with open minds and a willingness to
trust the other, there can be no give and take of communication. If students
feel that Dr. Ferre or any administrator distrusts them before they talk,
how can any benefit be derived from such discussion?
Prior to last week, there had been an air of renewal on this campus—an
attitude of reserved hopefulness that President Nolen was serious when he
spoke of communication and its importance. Students were willing to trust
the new administration and give it a chance to function before judging its
members and merits. The student body once again was willing to work for
change through the "system" and the official channels the administration
suggested, because students trusted the new team to lead them with honesty
and objectivity. Evidently Dr. Ferre is not willing to extend to all students
the same confidence, trust and unwillingness to prejudge that students give
Trash Becomes Litter
When Tossed on Ground
Anthony E. Stephens 1433 Knight,
In the continuing controversy over the
merits and demerits of our striped cans,
one important point seems to have been
overlooked: The little cans are labeled
If you are walking across campus and
have just unwrapped a candy bar, the wrap-
per you have in your hand is not litter. It
does not become litter unless it is thrown
on the ground. So, you are faced with three
choices: (I) You can throw the wrapper
on the ground for someone else to pick
up and put in the can; (2) You can throw
the wrapper on the ground and then pick
it up yourself and put it in the can; (3) You
can misuse the can.
Now I realize that "Litter" is more of
an "in" word than "Trash," but really,
more thought should have been given to
the moral dilemma that would be faced by
a person walking across campus with an
empty candy wrapper.
Royal Campus Police
Get Their Man Again
Carlton L. Flowers, N.T. Box 6594,
The Royal Campus Mounted Police once
again got their man. RCM Policeman
Davis has lately been perturbed about the
sinister rock sculptures that appeared
repeatedly in the NTSU mini-park. Never
one to shrik his duty, Davis knew that if
he persisted the criminal element construc-
ting these "safety hazards" would be
On Sunday, Sept. 19, at 8 a.m.. Patrol-
man Davis reported to the station his posi-
LITTLE MAN ON CAMPUS
p ru n
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16*iP; LOOK, you PIETY STKINGY-HAIKEP. poupmouth,
MALCoNTeHT-of-A-srupem/ ju4r COMB '
AL0N6 TO 1X6 A(?MJNlSTKAT/ON BUILDING ANP WC'LlSff
WHO & KLIHHIHG, THIS CLASS — wOt/ OH, M£.'«
tion behind the old auditorium building.
He was observing a lone individual behav-
ing suspiciously. The conversation followed
Davis: What are you doing?
Suspect: Making a stone sculpture.
Davis: Where'd you get the rocks?
Suspect: Originally they came from the
Davis: Are you going to leave it standing?
Davis: Let me see your ID.
Suspect: OK, here
Davis: What are you making is a safety
hazard. Some small child may cause it to
fall and hurt himself so you're gonna have
to take it down and put the rocks back in
Suspect: You puttin'me on?
Davis: No, either take it down or we're
going to the station.
Suspect: Let's go man, cause I ain't taking
The suspect was duly questioned and
processed by Davis and the report was
forwarded to the Dean of Students Office.
It is good to know that a school which pays
$250 monthly to its non-functional SGA
president at least gets its money's worth
from its Royal Campus Mounted Police.
Imagine these people are armed.
The North Texas Daily
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Whitehead, Mike. The North Texas Daily (Denton, Tex.), Vol. 55, No. 16, Ed. 1 Tuesday, September 28, 1971, newspaper, September 28, 1971; Denton, TX. (texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth326595/m1/2/: accessed May 24, 2018), University of North Texas Libraries, The Portal to Texas History, texashistory.unt.edu; crediting UNT Libraries Special Collections.