(upbeat synth music)
Announcer: On Campus with Gary McCaleb,
Dr. McCaleb's guest this evening is
Dr. Bill Halloran, a reading specialist,
and now, here's Gary McCaleb.
(upbeat synth music)
-: On campus today, we're pleased to welcome Bill Halloran,
an educational consultant from the state of Massachusetts
who's at ACU to talk specially about the area of reading.
Thank you for being with us today.
-: You're welcome, thank you for having me.
-: I think the area of reading seems to me as must be
considered one of the absolute essentials to enjoying life,
much more than just to education itself.
-: That's right, I think especially the love of reading,
if you're an adult and you love to read,
it's really a wonderful tool to survive by,
to combat loneliness, if you're ill, if you're by yourself,
to pick up that book, to open that book,
to go right to those magical pages,
I think there's nothing more wonderful than the book,
the reading, the story, being there.
-: How would you assess what is going on in our country today
as far as reading habits are concerned,
compared to times past?
-: I think today, we're in trouble in our reading programs.
I think we've lost the joy of reading.
I think we are overdoing it on skills and testing.
I think we've forgotten about reading
beautiful stories to kids, we've forgot about puppet shows,
the one standing in front of the class
reading that wonderful poem.
We don't have time for any of those things.
I think it is my job to make the reading program
come alive in my classroom, not even reading,
it could be science or math, I'm the teacher,
it's up to me to make my subject come alive,
I think we've lost that, and my work
is in the area of reading, and I would like to bring
the literature back to the classroom,
I would like to see kids sitting in corners
reading books again, I would love to see the kids
walking around with a paperback in their back pocket.
I don't see that too much anymore.
We're not, we're sitting at our desk
and we're filling in blanks, and we're coloring in dots,
and we're trying to get scores,
but we're not giving the kids the love of reading.
-: As a result of that, do you think
that winds up having an effect on scores?
-: Oh, I think we're getting the scores.
All reports are that scores are going up.
Scores are going up, but we're teaching for the test,
we're teaching to get that score,
but when we're all finished with the kids,
now this is what I want to know,
do the kids love to read, or did we get a score?
I don't know if you read the report,
Secretary of Education Bell came out with a report
that we are in trouble with education in the country,
and especially in reading, we lose two million children
to the streets every year, we lose them to the streets,
and the majority have reading problems, they cannot read.
We have another 26 million illiterate adults
in the United States,
46 million adults that can barely read or write their name,
we add two million to that illiterate pool
every single year, we're in trouble.
Gary: We're adding two million?
-: Oh, yes, two million to the illiterate pool every single,
illiteracy breeds illiteracy, and you see,
you have to break that cycle, and I think one of the ways
to break the cycle is to make reading come alive,
and that's my job, the teacher.
-: Fascinating, I think people would suspect today
that illiteracy was almost nonexistent,
and if it was at all, it was diminishing every year,
and yet, you're saying it's growing.
-: It's growing, and those figures that Bell quoted
are ten years old already, so we have a vast, vast
number of people out there that cannot read or write,
and we're losing lots of our kids in our classrooms.
Lots of kids are graduating from high school,
they hate reading, they'll say, "I never read a book."
They never want to touch a book, and you see, what was all
the work for if, when we let them go, they hate it?
See, my job is to make sure, when they go, they love it,
and they want to read that book, they want,
on the summer vacation, they want to read the book.
At nighttime, before they go to bed, spend a few minutes
just reading a wonderful story before you go to bed.
-: Are you concerned only with motivating people,
or encouraging people to read at school age level,
or at all levels? -: I'm into all levels.
I really think it doesn't matter how old you are.
At home, I work at the summer's prison,
with men that are imprisoned for life,
I've been working with them for six years,
most of them were grammar school dropouts,
and amazing things have happened,
and I just bring the books and I read to them,
and I have them read and write stories,
and it's almost like I'm back
teaching fifth grade again, and yet these are adults,
and I don't think it matters how old you are
if you have someone that can help you bring that to you,
and the love of reading is a gift, you see.
We don't have it in our schools,
but you can't go to the store and buy it.
You see, I have to give that.
That's a gift from person to person,
from teacher to child, from parent to their child.
So you can't buy that, if I could buy it, too.
We can buy all the equipment, I can buy all the textbooks,
but I can't buy the joy, and I can't buy the love.
See, it has to be given.
-: Is it possible to generalize,
as far as ages are concerned, is there a particular age
that seems to be more inclined to enjoy reading
than any other age range or kind of life?
-: I think if parents know by the way at birth,
and I really do believe it begins at birth,
if you start handling the book, you touch the book,
they rub it on their cheeks, they smell the book,
they chew on the book, they rip the book, reading has begun,
and then very early I start reading to my child,
and that's very, very important
to read to your child right away.
See, they pick up on the rhythms, they pick up on the beat,
the color, feeling the book, touching the page,
hearing the words, hearing the language,
and I think if you do that right away,
your child will go to school with that joy.
They're ready now, and lots of times,
the child is ready, they've got the love,
and then we take it away in school,
because now we are only concentrating
on the skills of reading, those isolated skills.
See, if I could keep that going,
keep them touching the books, and I really believe
even at the older level, even high school kids,
if they hate reading, they hate books,
I think I must go back to the beginning steps.
I've got to get those seniors in high school
to touch something, now whether it's a comic book,
or it's Sports Illustrated, the newspaper,
a joke book, anything, get them to touch, touch.
-: You'd be happy if they're reading anything, then?
Bill: Yes, I would.
-: Reading a magazine, reading the newspaper, just reading.
-: Yes, yes, because when you read,
when you read something, you're practicing your skills.
See, we don't allow the children today,
we just, we work on isolated skills, but you see,
we leave the other two parts of reading out.
The second part is when I read to the children,
when I read to you, and I read to my own child,
when I read to my fifth grade class.
That's the motivation, that's the excitement.
And then the third part of the reading program
is when I give you time each day in my classroom or at home
to sit and read, to practice those skills I'm working on.
First part, skills, second part of the reading program,
I'm reading to you, and I can read
way over your reading level,
and then the third part's when I give you time to read,
and then I've come full circle now.
But, see, we only do part one in our schools,
most of the schools in the country,
because that part will give us the score.
I cannot get an immediate score
out of the joy of reading, the love of reading.
See, how can I measure that?
That takes a while, but if I would keep going
with the three parts of the reading program
in the home and in the school,
I would accomplish great things.
-: Isn't it generally true that a person will do better
at things they enjoy than at things they don't enjoy?
-: Of course.
-: And so if I enjoy reading,
I ought to do better at reading.
-: Yeah, you like playing basketball,
you're going to love it.
If you like reading, you're going to go on.
I found out that, I went to college when I was older,
I went when I was 30, and then so I began teaching.
I taught sixth grade mid thirties,
and I got in there and I found,
I thought it was going to be wonderful,
and it wasn't wonderful.
I thought it would be exciting and grand, but it wasn't,
because I wasn't exciting, and I realized that
it was up to me to bring the excitement
to what I was teaching, it wasn't going to happen.
I thought it would be all the things around me,
I thought it would be the textbook,
I thought it would be the bulletin board over here.
No, it was me, my personality, my teaching style,
my enthusiasm, and I had to learn some hard lessons.
I really didn't understand that my enthusiasm
was my finest teaching tool.
If you're excited, see, that excitement will flow from me,
like tonight when I speak to the audience tonight.
I will depend on my own enthusiasm
to motivate that crowd tonight,
and, you see, and that will work in the fifth grade,
it will work in the first grade,
it will work with seniors in high school,
hopefully it will work tonight. (chuckles)
Gary: And then, are you saying that enthusiasm then
is transmitted to that person,
and they become enthusiastic about?
-: That's right, when I read this book,
say if I had just read a wonderful book,
now I want to tell you about that,
that's how we get each other to read books.
Oh, I read a book today, I got to tell you,
now you're going to get, maybe you'll go get that.
Same with the kids, too, and to bring the literature
to the children, I have to do something
with literature, even if it's to hold the book.
I can't say, "I have many books over there,"
kids go over there and read.
No, as the teacher I must take those books off the shelf,
and do something, whether I read a section,
whether I read the whole book to them,
whether I show them some pictures,
but I've got to do something, and then I leave it here,
and then hopefully most of them will go and touch that.
-: Now, how much has the presence of television
worked against reading?
-: Okay, I think it's done a couple of things,
and I would like to say right now,
and many educators are going around the country saying that
they would like to throw the TVs out of the homes
and never turn them on again.
I don't believe in that.
I love TV myself, I think TV is the most wonderful,
educational tool in the whole world.
I think our kids learn a great deal from TV,
but I think it should be used in moderation,
but I don't believe in just saying,
"No, you can never watch TV ever again,"
because that's not practical, we have wonderful programs,
Jean Crousteau, my own child with Captain Kangaroo,
Mr. Green, wonderful programs for the kids,
but it has hurt a couple of things.
It is easier to watch the TV than to read,
it's harder for the teacher, for me,
to motivate the child, because of TV,
the books that I bring in to the children
have to be very, very exciting books,
because the TV is exciting,
so I must look for the right things,
and I would say for the parents at home
not to take the TV away, but I want equal time for reading.
So you have so much time for TV,
but leave me some time, too, over here.
Maybe 10, 15 minutes, turn the TV off,
just before you go to bed, sit with your child,
read to your child, don't go to the store
and buy a reading series and work on skills
with your child at home, usually we're undoing
what the teacher has done at home,
we're working in different reading series.
I would say, bring the literature,
and have a wonderful session with your child,
and I would like to say, maybe people are going to kill me,
I wish this country would stop with book reports.
I think book reports have hurt reading
more than any other thing in the whole world.
Gary: How is that?
-: Well, a book report is never fun to do most times,
a book report is work, and so after every book I read,
if I have to do a book report,
even our gifted children will stop reading,
because I don't want to do that book report,
and you see, I think we've lost our goals here.
The real book report is,
"Hey Mr. Halloran, I love this book.
Have you got another one just like it?"
That's my book report, I don't need that child
to write out five pages about that book.
The taught child told me, "I love that book, Mr. Halloran.
Have you got another one just like it?"
Now, here's my problem,
I've got to find another one just like it,
and they mean just like it, they mean word for word.
Now that's where Nancy Drew comes in,
Nancy Drew is just like it.
-: Is it alright with you for them
to read books like Nancy Drew and so forth?
-: Of course, of course, many people my age
grew up with The Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew,
Five Little Peppers and How They Grow,
Bobbsey Twins at the Seashore,
but you see, I know that's not great literature,
but the child is reading,
and the child is practicing the reading skills.
Now, it's my job, as a classroom teacher, as the parent,
to take you up and out of Nancy Drew.
I don't want to leave you there,
I don't want to leave you in a comic book,
I don't want to leave you in Sports Illustrated,
I want to take you up and out, and that's a very slow,
careful process on the teacher's part,
and that, and I do that by reading different things to you.
-: But you don't, are you saying that someone will have to
bring me up to a higher quality literature,
to the great literature as we sometimes call it,
or will I eventually move there myself?
-: It depends, I don't know if any of us move there
by ourselves, there's always the influence around us.
That wonderful professor you have,
that wonderful English professor
that opened up Shakespeare in your life.
I think someone that opens it up in your life,
and I think in the upper grades, especially,
I think we're trying to give the kids the classics
before they're ready for the classics.
I think you bring them to Shakespeare
you don't work with Shakespeare with a high school student
that's reading on a second or third grade level,
that can't even get through a small book,
and now I'm saying you must read Shakespeare.
No, I think I must make some allowances for that child,
and give that child some other things,
and bring that child to Shakespeare,
and if that child never reaches Shakespeare,
the child can still be happy in life.
-: We need to take a break, and then we'll come back.
We're visiting today with Bill Halloran,
a reading consultant and educational specialist.
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The university's academic program reflects
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-: We're back on campus and continuing to talk
with Bill Halloran, educational specialist
in the area of reading.
I think it's so important to know what is the right book,
or what is the right way for a parent to encourage
their own son or daughter.
Let me ask you a couple of questions inner related.
One, what are the kinds of things I,
as my child is just beginning to learn to read
and moving into different stages,
that I need to know about what kind of books?
Because you were saying you can give them
the wrong kind of reading material at the wrong time,
it can be more damage than you're doing good,
and also, are there other things that you can do
just to create the right atmosphere in your home
that makes them ought to enjoy it?
-: I think you start out especially,
and I do believe in having books around right away
when you bring the child home from the hospital.
A mother came, I was doing a parent group
a couple of weeks ago, and the mother brought
her newborn baby, I think the baby was nine, 10 weeks old,
had the baby in her arms, and after I gave the speech
and showed the books and everything, she came up to me,
and she was panic stricken, she said,
"Mr. Halloran, when should I start with my child?
When should I start?"
I said, "Oh, it's too late to start,"
and I thought she was going to faint,
but I answered that seriously, she should start
by just having large, beautiful books around,
just letting the child touch the books,
and she said start reading right away.
The baby won't understand the words, but they will pick up
on the rhythms, the rhythms in Mother Goose,
the nursery rhymes, those wonderful rhythms,
and then the pictures, and we have large pictures,
and so the child will soon start to point, this is an apple,
this is a pear, this is a butterfly,
and I think have lots of books
around the house all the time.
I think children should see their parents
sit down and reading a book, alright?
Have the books in the children's room.
Many in the schools, we're under, and then,
we seem to think that books belong in the library.
I think every school should have a wonderful library,
but get those books off the library shelves
and into the classrooms.
You bring the books to the children,
you do not send the children to the books.
All of us, we tell the children,
"Go down to the library and get a book and come back."
So, the kids go down, and nine of 10 will come back,
10 thousand beautiful books in that library,
they'll come back and say,
"Mr. Halloran, I couldn't find anything."
But, you see, it's my job, if in my fifth grade,
sixth grade, high school class, kindergarten class,
every day, if I show them a couple of books,
read something, do something with the books.
Then, I can have them go the library,
and they will now, they'll go down to the library,
they'll ask the librarian,
"Has Ezra Jack Keats got any other books?
Has Leo Lionni got anything else?
Has John Steptoe, has Judy Blume got any other books?"
You see, because I made them
knowledgeable about books and authors,
but that's part of the teaching process,
that's part of the reading process,
and so I think parents should start that right away,
and I find where parents are confused,
parents are, when I work with parents,
they're desperate to help their children,
and they don't know how, they think to help their children,
they must go get a workbook, and sit at the kitchen table
and fill in those blanks in the workbook,
and if you only knew how many children cry at kitchen tables
in this country over workbook pages and book reports
every year, you see, I would say to parents,
put all that away, take your child,
especially if they're little, put your child
right next to you, take that wonderful picture book,
or that wonderful story, Black Beauty,
take Where the Red Fern Grows, the story of
two dogs and a boy, that wonderful book,
and you know what happens in every dog story, the dog dies.
Then, when you get to the part where the dog's about to die,
that's a wonderful bonding parent and child,
bonding fifth grade teacher with fifth grade class.
You see, when the kids come back,
when they come back to see me, they'll always say,
"Mr. Halloran, are you still reading
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory to the kids?"
They remember me reading to them.
They do not remember the time I did the skill sheets.
The skills are important, but there's more to it
than just a skill sheet.
-: Are there, let's say if I took my son
to a bookstore and we're going to buy a book,
I may have some preconceptions
about the book he ought to buy.
-: Oh yes, you do. (laughs)
-: What about his preference for a book he wants?
And then which is, is it important
for me to emphasize the book I think he should be reading,
or to go along with the book he thinks is good?
-: I think you know the answer to that already,
I would always go with the child, I would let the child,
because it's a child picks out this book, the child,
we have a lot of troubles now when we go,
the kids that are into reading, they are into
S.E. Hinton, she writes very controversial books,
she talks about the high school scene and the way it is,
and she wrote her first book, The Outsiders,
when she was 16 years old herself, in high school,
became a bestseller, the kids relate to that.
The kids live that, but to your son in high school now,
you may say, "Well, I don't want you to read
S.E. Hinton's The Outsiders."
But your son is already in that scene,
your son understands that.
With my own child, my daughter,
and I know maybe I'm not the run of the mill,
I would let her read anything, I was always that way.
I would let her just pick and read,
and if she understands it, then that's wonderful.
If she doesn't, she'll put it away.
But many parents, when I'm in a bookstore myself,
I listen, and I have to keep quiet,
because I may have to go over and say,
"Oh, but look, this, and look at the,"
and I have to stay out of that,
but a lot of parents want to push the books
that they grew up on, they want them to read
Treasure Island and Black Beauty,
because those are the books we read,
and those are wonderful books, but, see,
today's kids want to read about today,
they want to read the things that are very exciting today,
and I would go along with that.
The Doll and Bookstore chain, they have asked me,
and I don't think I can do this
because I don't have that many years left,
I'm getting too old.
They have asked me to train their people in their stores.
The area in a store that is most frightening to the clerks
is the children's section.
See, if I come in and want a book on fishing,
the clerk can go help me right away.
I want a book on psychology, they can help me,
but when I come in and say,
"My child is ten years old, what can you give me?"
They don't know.
So really, parents need a lot of help in selecting books,
and when I do a parent group, you see, my job, I feel,
is to show them as many different types of books as I can,
and explain about reading and bringing those books,
and that's what I try and do with parents.
-: You know, it occurred to me that in addition to
that bonding between parent and child,
the reading process can provide a bonding
between grandparent and grandchild, too, can it?
-: See, to me, the fastest way to bond with anyone
is with a beautiful book.
If I came today and I have maybe
100 beautiful books with me,
and if I picked out one of those books today,
and I didn't think to do this, I should've,
and I said I love this book and I would like you to have it.
See, right away, something has gone on between us,
and you almost don't care what book it is,
because I told you I loved it,
and it's a gift from the heart, you see,
and see, that's when I give the love of reading.
That's a gift from the heart, and that's lasting.
Gary: What about poetry, reading poetry?
Aren't a lot of people sort of
uncomfortable with reading poetry?
-: Sure, and I think today,
the poetry's absolutely magnificent.
Judith Viorst has done some beautiful
poetry books for the kids,
Shel Silverstein has become a multimillionaire
with his two books, Where the Sidewalk Ends,
and A Light in the Attic.
He's just now recorded it, I said,
why didn't I do those things?
And just wonderful, wonderful things with children,
and children get cheated in poetry in this country,
and I think it's partly because our own background
was so poor, I know when I was growing up in my time,
they used poetry as a punishment.
I can remember being in fifth grade,
staying after school to memorize Hiawatha,
which is a punishment, you were bad
so you memorize Hiawatha, and I've always hated Hiawatha,
I could never get beyond the shores of Gitche Gumee.
I hate Hiawatha, I hate Gitche Gumee, even to this day,
and, you see, many teachers went through those experiences,
so we're not comfortable ourselves with poetry,
and then we, some teachers will say,
"Well, I did a week of poetry last year."
A week of poetry, that's sad,
it's just like saying Black History Week, sad.
I've just come from a system there,
we're going to celebrate the joy of Reading Day.
(laughs) See, sad, sad.
See, poetry, you weave poetry through your whole year.
You weave the literature, the poetry,
you read to children every day in the classroom,
and I think it's more important to the older kids
than even the younger kids.
If you have any hope of getting the older kids,
the high school kids turned onto reading,
you better read to them, that's your only hope in the world.
You cannot give them more skill sheets,
you cannot put them in more reading kits,
they already went down that road,
that didn't work for them,
and I think with the older kids, read to them,
change the attitude, I can read, I'm not dumb.
I'm not dumb, I can read, and that's my job
at the upper levels to do that,
and the books are wonderful,
and I really believe that that's the road we have to take,
especially with the older ones.
-: Do you consider there to be one grade in the school system
that's more critical to the reading development of a child
than any other particular grade level,
or is it a progressive thing all the way through?
-: I think it's a progressive thing, I think if we didn't
break the chain, you'll have the teacher that will just
make it all come alive for the child,
make it all come alive, will be wonderful
to have them reading, and then they go from that year
to the next year and it won't be alive anymore.
It'll be, you'll kill it right away,
and you can kill it very quickly, but I do believe,
do believe if you have a few teachers that do give you
that love of reading, and then, I don't think it's lost,
I think you put it away for a while, but you have it inside,
and it will come out later in your life,
but you got to have some wonderful, wonderful teachers
in your life to give you that,
and I think that's the real part of teaching.
-: You know, there are the great literary works,
there's the fiction, there are the biographies,
and there are also the textbooks that students have,
associate so much of their early reading
with assignments out of reading textbooks.
-: So you see, if I can give you the love of reading,
make reading wonderful, when you come to the textbooks,
it's not going to be so ugly.
You see, I've paved the way for you already.
You are used to books, you are into books, you know 'em,
and then when you're older, you know you can gain
a great deal of knowledge from the books.
You know, I would want to say just before,
maybe I won't get this in,
but we stop reading to our kids
around third grade in the United States.
The research out of the University of Ohio states
30% of the primary teachers in the United States, 30%,
now, I'm talking about primary, the little babies,
they never even read one story all year long to the kids.
Intermediate grades, grades four, five, and six,
the research states 70% of the intermediate teachers
never even read a poem all year long,
and I think, in the upper levels,
I would probably have to use a computer to get the figures,
and once again, the fastest way to get anyone to read,
or excited about reading, read to them,
and that's very simple, that's not a profound,
I think maybe we don't have that,
nobody seems to care about it in the country,
because it's not profound, it's common sense,
and we don't seem to go along with common sense statement,
but you don't have to go to college to understand that.
-: But based on what you're saying, it's hard for a teacher
to transmit their love and excitement and joy about reading
if they don't ever read anything.
-: If you don't possess it yourself,
if you don't have that excitement,
if you don't have that joy, I can't give it.
So, if I don't like reading, and I don't like literature,
and I don't like teaching, it's a disaster.
-: As a parent, what about a program that says,
you may only watch television two hours and after that,
you know, that's your quota for watching television,
and then after that, turn it off and read, is that...
-: I wouldn't want to put a time limit on it.
I would, just like in my classroom, some days
I may need to read five minutes to the class, you know,
and the next day I may need to read ten minutes.
Don't put a time limit on,
because you're going to get caught in that.
I would want to leave just, okay,
we're going to have some time for TV,
we're going to have some time,
tonight there may be three wonderful educational programs on
that I want you to see, maybe that takes
two and half hours, okay?
And tonight, we'll spend our time with those
three educational programs, and maybe we'll only spend
ten minutes reading the book, but tomorrow night
there really isn't much on, so maybe just a half hour TV
tomorrow night, and maybe the hour and a half for the book.
Gary: So in other words, keep some flexibility.
-: Yeah, sure, same in the classroom.
Use some common sense, but don't throw the TV out.
Many educators are saying that today,
so I'm kind of going against the trend on that,
but I would feel terrible if someone took my TV away,
because I love TV, and when I travel,
I'm alone all the time, TV saves me.
-: Did you know there's a way that we could describe
or society as being an electronic generation,
and of looking at books at being old fashioned,
that that's what people did
before there was radio and television.
-: Oh, I know, that hurts me a great deal.
Gary: And record players, and tape players,
and all of these kinds of things.
-: They say soon, because of the computer age,
we will not have books anymore,
and I feel very sad about that,
because there is something about holding that book,
opening the book, something very magical,
especially when you have the blues, or you're down,
or you're lonely, and you go right into that book,
and you are there, and there's something wonderful.
I hope we never lose that, I like that very much.
-: What do you think about reading biographies?
Bill: Oh, I love that.
-: Other people's stories.
-: I'm fascinated with that, myself.
As a matter of fact, I was just reading
about Truman Capote, I've always followed his works,
and his literature, and he died recently,
I think you know that, and I've been reading
about his life and to me, that's fascinating.
Kids like that, too, they like the sports heroes,
they like the historical heroes, things like that.
Gary: It's a way of finding people
and identifying with them,
and even if you wanted to get to know them better.
-: Kids go through stages, they go through the biographies
and then, of course, you have the kids
that go through the horses, they love the horses,
the animals, and then they love the sports stories,
and then they love the mysteries, and you see,
parents get very upset, parents will come to me and say,
"Oh, my boy will only read sports stories."
How lucky you are, keep them there,
feed him, feed him, feed him,
but at the same time now, as teacher,
you see, by reading to the children,
I'll take them up and up because I'll show them
all kinds of other wonderful things around.
-: It's very obvious how much you enjoy reading, and I think
Bill: Yeah I do, but I didn't read 'till I was older.
Gary: It comes across, and I'm sure it came across
even to our audience watching. -: Thank you.
-: Thank you for being with us so much.
Bill: Thank you for having me.
-: I've been visiting with Bill Halloran,
be back with us again on campus.
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