-: Ernie she's down on a case right now in Houston
and my other daughter's over there watching TV up there.
(interviewer laugh)
Interviewer: So after you got out of the service
and you come back to Tyler to your family,
what did you do for work?
-: I went to work for medical center hospital in 1,956
as the first African-American ever to work in the laboratory
as a laboratory technician, not a glass washer.
I worked as laboratory technician,
since the communication and contact
with the white element of the community
was not that good at that time.
My work was somewhat restricted to the one floor
that they had in the hospital for African-Americans.
And because of, of that, I
my specialty in the laboratory
was somewhat limited to personal in that regard.
But so far as the, all of the elements of a laboratory
I was able to care my most specifically
was I good at bacteriology at my college
and that's where a lot of Persons where weak
and that's where they let me plant my steak, so to speak.
So I made myself somewhat indispensable to live
in an early age, you know.
They were kind to me
and they were perhaps on the cusp of doing a little change
but it took a little while before I got in
as that I applied as a laboratory technologist
but I didn't get it right away.
It took maybe about two weeks.
And after they had talked to the hierarchy, you know
influential doctors and whatnot
and now they decided they would want to give me a chance.
I would do that.
And I worked at that for a pretty good while until I decided
that it was not going to allow me to do what I wanted to do
for the number of people in this community
who had, we were stagnated,
we had not, we had move in some regard
but in order to push the, push the pig further
we had to have a different, different view of matters.
And I knew full well from my perspective
I couldn't do it without getting some knowledge
of how the same was put together
and how you move projects forward.
That's why I went to law school at great expense,
that was my concern.
I never earned a law license
but I got a law degree
and that was what's necessary
and that's, what's been extremely benefit.
Tell you about some finances, real estate business doing
and whatnot, corporations
all of that which was totally alien to us
you know, at one time.
It opened my mind up to what
look I hear what you can really do
when you know what the laws are.
And how you can hold a person responsible
for the treatment of you
when you know what the laws are.
And how you can argue and advocate strongly
when you know what the laws are.
You know, you look stupid out there
if you don't know what you're advocating on
what you're basing the song,
if you don't have something that sustains you
that a person has made a commitment to say,
we've made a commitment that we're gonna hold true
to the principles and the edicts of a constitution.
When they make that commitment
then it takes in the whole thing.
You know what I'm saying? Interviewer: Hmm.
You just have to know how to plug it in and say listen
consistent with what you've made your commitment, Bob
this is where you are alien to that particular commitment
and strongly advocate that
and you'll see that kind of adversity or not adversity
but those that, that adversary,
they drop off for you like fleas off of a dead dog.
Because what you're doing, you're armed with the law
and this is a nation of laws.
Nobody really takes a whole lot of delight
in saying you pervert the law either.
I, most of all, don't like that.
'Cause that's the only thing that that's the glue
that's what holds you together.
That's what holds you together
you got to have that.
But many times
you inadvertently break the law.
Because you know what the law is.
You know, it's a sad thing where
you have to decriminalize sayings
in order to get people to not be subject
to the wrath of the law.
Laws are made for a purpose, you know.
I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that
I know that I'm telling you more than you're asking me for.
I don't think you ought to decriminalize things
in order to get people to conform.
And you know, you could give me a
you could give me a piece of property
in one of the States that have decriminalized marijuana.
Marijuana is it perhaps doesn't have like,
it has a reputation
it's the feeling that the general public has about it.
It's not necessarily that it's more injurious to you
than look at a cup of beer or a glass of beer
but the point is so long as the gym public
does not buy into the notion that it is as market
that it is as innocuous
as you want to proclaim it to be
then you're gonna have resistance.
You're gonna have resistance.
And these little pockets of people do it.
I know I'm asking you more
than you asking me for, but nevertheless, that's
I'm on the stump right now
and not really (interviewer laughs)
So I'm just telling you some things
that I know that are detrimental to us
and the people who are more susceptible to it
are the people who can least be susceptible to it.
We know these people of higher meaning whatnot,
they have cocaine parties and all that whatnot.
They can afford to float all the way down to
the bottom of the jug.
Put on a Brooks brothers suit
and he can free my shoes or whatnot
float back up to the top and be your boss tomorrow
you can't go down there with them.
That's my preaching that I used to do
when I had some young ears
that would give me an audience.
You can't follow some people who are privileged.
They're privileged.
They can manipulate the laws,
they can buy the attorneys who can make you think
that they are, you're not,
you don't have a right under the law
and a whole lot of different thing.
I talked to my daughter on every day, all the time.
She's not telling it to me anything
that I then perhaps already know
but nevertheless, she confirms what I do.
She confirms what I already knew.
To some extent you might say it's getting better
I don't see where it's getting any better.
Yeah.
Interviewer: So you worked at the, the medical center?
-: Yeah, sure I did.
Interviewer: And you started there in 1956?
-: Right
Interviewer: And then you said..
-: I worked there for 12 years
Interviewer: For 12 years
-: 12 years after which time I went out to a hospital here
the University of Texas Health Center
that's what's presently known as.
It was known then as
the East Texas Tuberculosis hospital.
I had kind of a inclination toward
wanting to do something around tuberculosis
because that's the element that caused my mother to die.
Yeah.
It wasn't much that they could do for tuberculosis
at that time either.
They talked about the elevation, the temperature, I mean
altitudes and whatnot.
She was in the hospital down in Baskerville city
it has a C-level that is supposed
to be helpful to people with tuberculosis.
National Jewish hospital out here
in Denver Colorado same thing.
So that's what attracted me to that beside the fact that
there was only about 90% of the employees out there
were black people because it was the least desired place
to work.
You know.
I went out there and worked
and I didn't contract tuberculosis
but nevertheless that fear that it would be
made it a least desired place for,
for many people to wait.
So we didn't have to worry about the competition otherwise
but at the mean time, in the meantime, I worked out there
and when I gave my resignation to leave the medical center
they asked me to stay and work in a part-time sense
and I did because bacteriology in my college
was not the strong suits of many people there
and it was my strong suit.
And I had developed a relationship with the doctors
where they could depend on it
and I was delighted to perform it.
It's the kind of aspect of the laboratory
that you can do without any constancy
of being there every day for eight hours.
To assist you there when you plant it,
then when you to take it off
perform your sensitivity tests, give the report
and your analysis of it
or your evaluation would which you've got.
And it was good for me
good for my family and everything.
Hard work but nevertheless it paid me good.
Paid me good at that time
$400 a month was a lot of money to make at that time.
Yeah, sure it is.
Interviewer: And this, the second hospital
that you worked at that is in Tyler?
-: Yeah?
Interviewer: And this second hospital was in Tyler?
-: Yeah, Sure Medical center
present location medical center hospital.
Interviewer: Medical center hospital
-: Right, 1956.
Interviewer: Oh, I was talking about the one
where you worked with tuberculosis patients.
-: It's out there at bowdlerized
it's risen to the level of being
a first-class teaching hospital and everything.
Now you don't see any remnants
or tuberculosis out there anymore, you know.
Tuberculosis has been an element that I think we put
and might put to rest on our generation,
but because of some of the,
you know, drugs, Streptomycin,
Para Aminobenzoic acid and models like that
which were very, very helpful at eradicating tuberculosis,
new techniques and whatnot.
Very good thing.
Interviewer: Yeah.
-: Very good thing.
Interviewer: And so you mentioned earlier that you went
and got your law degree from Texas Southern university.
Did you have to relocate to Houston for awhile
-: I did -: while you did that?
-: I had to relocate for three years.
Interviewer: Okay.
And you took your family with you?
-: No, my family stayed here -: Okay.
that's what I've said,
they sacrificed to stay here.
Interviewer: Oh, I thought you meant
when you were in the military
-: No, no they stayed here in our Community.
Interviewer: Okay.
-: At least, at least twice a month.
Interviewer: Okay.
-: I had a 14 year old boy at that time.
I told him he's in charge.
He was in shock.
(both laughs)
He was in charge and he didn't know that I back
he still tried to be in charge.
(both laugh)
Interviewer: And this is your oldest son?
-: That's my oldest son.
-: He's going to play professional football
for the Cincinnati Bengals at a hundred, 222 pounds
he was drafted in the seventh round
as an outside linebacker.
He looked very big, but he's gritty.
He's got, he was the most valuable player
in the peach bowl when Baylor, he went to Baylor.
Baylor played clamps down, that's his trophies over there,
right on the before he leaves it here
because he's pretty much aware of the fact
that sometime I get some attraction
and he wants me to point it out.
(both laugh)
Interviewer: We'll take a look at it before I leave.
-: Yeah, you'll see how that says
what year was that buddy?
Back in the, let's see, I can tell you quickly
78.
Interviewer: Okay.
-: That's been over that since about 90,
no I'm sorry not that long 76.
Yeah, because he finished high school in 1976.
Yeah, she was there.
Interviewer: So you had mentioned earlier
when you were working in the hospitals
that there were some things that were going on
in and around the Tyler community that made you
want to go get your, your, your law degree.
Can you give me an example?
-: Well, it wasn't necessarily with the hospital
it was with the overall concept of moving our body forward.
They were eager to move.
I didn't have any message I could give to them.
And I recognize that
my message to them
was devoid of the curve of interests
they kind of elements that was going to cause us
to be able to put our shoulder to the wheel.
I know that there were things out there that we could do
but I didn't have anything that I could tell them
that was a genuine, you know
that was relevant and I personally knew that
but they they let me slip away long enough
to find out some of the things I came back and told them.
And they, and we began to move to
within the parameters of the law
that they had declared to be the law from that legislature.
And also said that these are the laws
that we'll be obedient to.
That's all we did.
We just, you use the law sometime when we caught them
without conforming to the laws
we had the courage to resist them through demonstration.
We built a lot of that around here.
Interviewer: Can you give me an example?
Well, I can give you a lot of examples
of when we demonstrated
we demonstrated one person wanted not to give us
the provision declared to be justified
and legal under the under 1964 voters' rights act
such as declared that it could, they,
they resisted very strongly.
The setting aside of a district that was for our benefit.
They resisted very strongly when we were able to put two men
on the city council.
So we sued them.
We sued them back at 1,970 -71.
No, I'm sorry.
It was yeah by 1,971, whenever it was
we had persons who had gained that they,
they became emboldened by the things that we had won
and they had no hesitation about putting out names
on a lawsuit.
Though they were though they were nominal plaintiffs.
Nevertheless, it's the thing that caused them to move.
And ever since that time, we've had two districts
in the city of Tyler,
which are decidedly minority district
and which have repeatedly been occupied by minority element.
We have, I compiled it one time
from 19 than what the other that was right now.
I came off of 79, 76 to 73.
I was three years on the council
but we brought that about because we were able to, you know
expound positive means and directions.
And people brave a lot of the fears
that they had been harnessed by and hobbled by disappeared.
We had three common men who put their names
on a petition, one, a professional man, the other two
who was self-employed that put their name
on a petition back in 1900.
And I'm trying to remember the date right now.
Anyway, it was at the
it was in the middle seventies, 74, 75.
We put out, put their names on a, a
a petition, I mean on a petition
of suit against the city of Tyler and the city of Tyler laws
We paid for it.
We filed a suit and it was, it was roughly
about five years before it ever came to fruition.
And what it did, we had to travel to the federal court.
We filed it here in the city.
I mean, the federal court here in Tyler
but we had to travel all the way to boa to get it
but it was finally done.
So they declared to them
that other than provision of 1,964 civil rights act
you're going to have to declare two district
for these people because they're significant in number.
And they've been deprived of any kind
of realistic opportunity to participate in the government.
And that was a city government.
We've had no argument with it ever since
presently we have a black man who is the mayor Pro Tem
and they have followed an orderly path like that.
Circulated not withstanding what his ethnic identity was.
We've had people who've been on that board for years.
I served three years there and, and
and morphed to the commissioner's court.
We've had several people who've done the same thing.
They're not minority though.
The lady who was at right now was also a city Councilman
before she got there.
It's a good training ground for what goes on in the County.
So that's the way I regarded it.
She really did, but, you know, because of the recognition
of what is necessary to, to mean meaningfully
and legitimately and respectfully commit, I mean
to compete with some of the things that bind us.