-: Thank you.
Interviewer: So, in other words,
you grew up in South Texas in the valley.
-: I grew up in this little town, Mercedes,
which was in Queen of the Valley,
and it had a population of about 10,000.
Interviewer: Oh, okay.
Kind of a middle-sized town.
-: Middle-size town right in the middle of the valley.
Interviewer: What do you do for a living in Mercedes?
-: It's an agribusiness area.
So there was a lot of citrus,
some cotton, small merchants,
Brownsville had kind of the port,
McAllen and Edinburgh had the university,
and Mercedes was just a little town
where mostly small merchants.
Service industry like, you know, just regular little town.
Interviewer: Yeah, a boring town.
-: A boring town. (interviewer laughs)
-: Yeah.
Interviewer: So what would you guys do for fun?
-: Actually, I have a brother that's 5 years younger
than I am,
so when my little brother came along,
he and I just basically roamed the town when we were free,
like we would have breakfast.
And then my mom would kind of just say,
"Okay, be back for lunch,"
you know we would hang out.
Right across from our street was the railroad track,
and when I grew up there was a depot there,
and the train, the passenger train, would go by.
So we would wait for the train to go by,
we would like wave at the train.
If it was summer we would just roam the town,
play outdoors,
we had pets but like they never lasted very long
'cause we weren't that affluent,
and pets kinda went away.
School was the big place to go.
We had a tiny little library,
and I love the tiny little library,
so it was air conditioned,
I went there a lot,
my mother encouraged us to hang out at the church
so there were any church activities for kids.
My mom was gonna send me there.
My first job was at 12 which was exciting
because I got to go three streets down to the tortilla,
and the lady hired me to just turn over
the tortillas and do that.
I probably did that a total of maybe an hour a day
but that was what I did when I was 12,
'cause it was a big adventure.
Interviewer: I see. -: Yeah.
Interviewer: What was the church that you went to?
Do you remember the name?
-: Yeah, Lady of Mercy in Mercedes.
And actually we lived on the Mexican side of the tracks
and our church was on the white side of the tracks.
So I would have to cross the tracks and walk
maybe like five blocks to go to church.
Interviewer: So the railroad tracks
were the demarcating line of sort of racial segregation?
-: Yes. Interviewer: In Mercedes?
-: Yes.
Interviewer: And so when you were growing up,
was there any interaction with white folks
across the tracks or in the town,
or anything like that you can remember?
-: My elementary school was mostly Mexican
so I remember a couple of teachers being white.
My first grade teacher
was a very young teacher, Miss Garza.
And my second grade teacher was a white teacher.
But as far as socializing, no.
My dad owned a bar and I do remember that once in a while,
he had a friend that was white,
I guess my dad did some work for him,
and he would come to my dad's bar
to like have a meal or something
but we didn't socialize.
We never were invited to their home.
Interviewer: Was the whole town Catholic?
-: No, because-
Interviewer: Was there some sort of,
'cause sometimes we've interviewed folks
and there have been Protestant individuals-
-: Yes.
Interviewer: Who may have gotten some flack for that
when they were growing up.
Was that kind of the case?
-: I do remember that because my dad had a bar
and there would be music sometimes there,
and there was cooking sometimes there.
I do remember that some people that would come,
I don't even know why,
I had the impression that they were not Catholic
because they knew songs that weren't Catholic,
they were Protestant,
and I don't even know how I knew that as a kid.
There were also some people that during the summer,
they would come into our neighborhood
and encourage our parents
to let us go to their summer vacation Bible school,
and in the Catholic church that's like a no-no
you're not supposed to be going to another church,
but my mom sometimes would let us go.
I think just to get us into the cool environment
and maybe keep us out of the sun for a while.
Interviewer: Right, right, right.
So you say that you spend a not insignificant amount
of time at the library?
-: I spent a lot of time there
because like I said it was air conditioned,
and I could have some quiet,
and then there was a lot of church activity.
Anything that would get me basically indoors
somewhere quiet I sought that out.
Interviewer: Right, but you were a reader
in other words from a young age.
-: Oh yeah.
Interviewer: So it's a no coincidence that you ended up
in such a reading intensive profession,
like working here at the- -: I think so.
My mother was a reader but she would read the novelas
with the pictures in them,
and I think that's where I kind of started to know letters
and be able to read.
But she read them in Spanish of course.
Interviewer: Okay when you were growing up,
were there separate schools for Hispanics
as opposed to white schools?
-: It was neighborhood schools
so of course I went to a Mexican school.
It was north elementary and then after JFK,
they renamed it Kennedy Elementary.
Interviewer: Oh, okay.
-: So I went to North Elementary and then,
junior high and high school was across the tracks
I guess it would be the west side of town,
and that was my first mixed environment.
Interviewer: I see.
So in other words,
junior high and high school by that point,
it was somewhat integrated?
-: Yes. Interviewer: I see.
So that was a new experience for you?
-: That was a new experience.
Interviewer: When you were in high school,
what subjects did you excel at
or were you interested in?
-: It's interesting because there are two things
that I think define my school memory,
and one is when we were in first grade.
Most of us were Spanish speakers
and my mother had already taught me to kind of read.
I remember that I knew letters and I could read.
So in first grade in my hometown,
in our elementary school,
you went to first grade and then you went to first high.
So basically you did first grade twice.
And the reason I remember my teacher is that
when the end of the school year came about,
she announced to us that seven of us were going to go
to second grade which was kind of scary
because nobody went to second grade.
And later on I realized that she picked those seven
because she thought we were ready
to skip that ridiculous first high.
Interviewer: In other words an informal acceleration.
-: Acceleration.
And all seven of us graduated from high school,
which I think she was very smart
in knowing who needed to go on.
The second experiences in high school
even though I had done really well in testing,
I took not college prep courses.
So I was encouraged to take typing and I almost flunked it.
That was not one of my excelling courses.
And after I almost flunked that,
my typing teacher wanted me to take shorthand
which I thought, oh my God no,
that's gonna be torture,
so I didn't do that.
So I didn't take Algebra,
Chemistry, Trig, any of that.
I took business math.
But I did really well in History, English.
Interviewer: So a student of the Humanity.
-: Yes.
Interviewer: We certainly respect that here.
-: Definitely a Humanities person.
Yes, I have children that are all Math people,
and I think that's their dad's genes.
Interviewer: I see, I see.
So what year did you graduate high school?
-: I graduated in 1967.
Interviewer: Wow.
What a year to graduate high school.
-: Yes.
Interviewer: So you were growing up
in a very tumultuous time?
-: I was- Interviewer: Historically.
-: Yes.
Interviewer: Was there any sense that something
was bubbling beneath the surface
with the Chicano movement and things-
-: There was a sense that things were shifting.
I remember my English teacher in high school,
oh and I hadn't thought about that in a long time.
I don't know where she came from
but you could tell she was really progressive young woman,
we went through Beowulf,
and then I remember because I was a reader,
I found in the library "In Cold Blood."
And that was like brand new then.
And she discovered that I was reading that,
and she's like, "How do you even know about this book?"
But she encouraged us all to learn to learn.
I remember she kept saying that.
You know it's important to learn to learn,
not so much just to do road work,
but everything that you do should be to learn to learn.
And I still remember her saying that.
But because I was in college prep,
I didn't expect to go to college.
Interviewer: I see.
-: So I took a course that was called DECA,
which was you work part-time after school,
and you get school credit.
Interviewer: I see.
-: So I got a job,
I already had a job at a laundromat,
and I had other jobs like I worked at the Five and Dime.
But DECA got me a job with a white couple,
the Halliburtons,
and they owned a school supply store.
And I remember when I went for the interview with them,
they had several people that were interviewing
for this DECA job that was part-time job.
And they said to me,
"Could you go in that file
and get us the file for a company so and so?"
And I remember thinking when I was walking there,
okay this is an alphabetical order,
that's gonna be like, you know, kind of figured out.
And when I pull it out they go,
"Oh so you're really one of the smart ones."
I don't know what that meant but they hired me.
But because I was not college prep
and my family wasn't wealthy,
so I didn't have a vehicle.
The closest university is in Edinburgh
and I had no concept of universities.
Like why would I, right?
So I remember them toward the end of the year saying to me,
"If you wanna keep working for us next year
when you're a senior,
you can work with us,
and at some point if you stay with us after you graduate,
we'll help you buy a car
so you can start going to Edinburgh."
And to me that was like, wow, that's really cool.
Because again I had no plans of going to school.
Interviewer: Right.
-: So those are the two memories that I have,
the first grade teacher which she told us
we were smart basically by her choice,
and the fact that-
Bless you. Interviewer: Sorry.
-: I didn't take college prep courses to this day.
I don't know who made that decision.
Interviewer: So in other words,
not only just being a female but being Hispanic at the time
was seen as you had a very constricted track in life,
or it was notable that people were telling you
that college was an option.
-: I didn't know it was an option
until by accident had happened, yeah.
Interviewer: And so at what point did it become-
-: An accident?
Interviewer: Well, an accident.
-: It was an accident.
So this couple had said to me,
"Look, if you wanna stay in this town
and if you wanna keep working with us,"
they were the first to mention to me,
"If you wanna go to to Edinburgh, to Pan American,
we'll help you buy a car."
And I was like really college?
I didn't know.
But I had a bunch of friends that were Mexican
but from the other side of the tracks,
and their parents had already like you're going to school,
you're going to Pan American.
Some of them were my friends from the white neighborhood
even though they were Mexican,
and one day they announced to me that they were going
to Pan American to take the college prep,
or the college entrance exams,
and I was like, oh, I wanna go to Edinburgh.
So I went with them and I took the college entrance exam.
And there was a question about what university
do you want the scores to go to?
And I had no clue.
So I asked who are you sending the money?
Who are you sending them to?
And they basically somebody next to me said,
"Well my cousin went to Texas Womens University."
So I put TW on there.
Interviewer: Really?
And then I put I think pan America on there.
Again, I didn't plan to go to school.
So I graduated from high school,
I'm working with the Halliburtons,
and I'm working at the Five and Dime,
and I'm working at the laundromat,
I'm working everywhere.
I babysit at-
Interviewer: Sound like you like it.
-: At a church on Sundays.
And I'm just like working, I had no clue.
And one day I come home and my mom says,
"Oh, you have a letter."
And I had a letter from Texas Womens University
that said based on your scores,
we're offering you a scholarship.
Interviewer: Wow, a full ride.
-: I had no clue what it was.
Interviewer: So exciting.
-: Like what do I do?
And my mom's like, I don't know,
'cause she's from Mexico,
we don't know anything about Texas Womens University.
Didn't even dawn in my brain
that it was a university with all women,
even though it said Texas Womens University.
So I had a neighbor that her kids were teachers
and we knew each other,
and so I told them and they said,
"Oh, we'll help you 'cause we've been to Edinburgh,
so we know how to do applications for money and grants,
and loans and whatever."
And so my mom said, you wanna go?
You're going.
Interviewer: Really?
-: And so again it's gonna make me teary.
Because who knows.
We can stop.