Scouting, Volume 3, Number 15, December 1, 1915 Page: 13
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SCOUTING.
13
THE AUTHORITY OF SCOUT COMMISSIONERS
A Discussion by Prominent Officials
IN a recent issue of Scouting anounce- them a/°.t n°L thin?s.,t.hat Jh/0'
, r ,i j- • r ,-i but rarely tell them of things that they must do.
ment was made ox the discussion oi the Hoping that I have given you something in the
question of the authority of a scout above that will be of value, believe me,
Commissioner to enforce obedience by Cordially yours,
scoutmasters and assistant scoutmasters of ( ),
official orders issued. _ Scout Commissioner.
The question was first raised by Com-
missioner James W. Ropes of Albany, N.
Y„ who sent a letter to several commis- My dear Mr. Ropes: -fThinkThat a large liberty must be allowed to
sioners requesting their opinions. Mr. I have your letter of July 15, which was ad- scoutmasters in regard to the handling of their
Ropes' letter and the replies he received dressed ^ "come tf00?3' and a
get it. If they did not co-operate I would find
it convenient . to "promote" them.
Yours cordially,
( ),
Scout Commissioner.
My dear Mr. Ropes:
I have your letter of the 15th inst., asking for
my views in regard to the authority of the scout
commissioner.
,'ere as follows:
BOY SCOUT HEADQUARTERS,
Fort Orange Council,
Albany, N. Y.
Dear Commissioner:
you ask is one which we ought not to have come ^ scoutmaster would be justified in refusing to
up, but I am very well aware that it does, as X reSp0tld to a request for his troop to take part in
have had the same experience which you evident y j0jnt activities, but a habit of independent action
are having. . , , , .on the part of a scoutmaster in regard to such
My opinion is that scoutmasters who do not matters, in my opinion would indicate a disposi-
respond and who have no good excuse should be wj1;cj1 ought to disqualify him for the position.
,t0 discipline. , ^ . Scoutmasters as a rule are volunteer workers,
With regard to paragraph 2, it seems to me ag arg scout commissioners and committee men.
that an assistant scoutmaster is absolutely unjus- -pjjey are an men who believe in the work of the
• • tified in taking any action such as you reter to ^conntQ atwillinp* tn mnke sflcrificcs for it
Will you please give me your experience or in ur letter and unless the SCOutmaster is held 2f?y success of the Movement deDends unon these
your thought in regard to the extent of the author- in ve little reSpect by the scouts of Ids troop ^he s"cceks.® of Movement d^ends upo
ity of the commissioner to order troops to take it j almost impossibie for an assistant to assume f*tTon The Inhibition of a contrary spirit on
part in rallies or council gatherings, and if scout- such an attitude. X fart of anv one man if orettv good evidence
masters who do not respond or attempt to respond with regard t0 the matter 0f co-operation, I be- ^at he is not sufted to the nlace he holds
with their troops to requests to attend such meet- l; that just as far as they find it possible to The relation between tL Icoutmaster and his
ings are in any way liable to discipline of any respond to the reasonable plans of the council and assT^nts in my oSioS, is a much more fntimato
sort. , officers, that scoutmasters should do so* +Tiof hptwppti flip QfnntmflQtpr stiH srniit
If a scoutmaster arranges for his troop to par- If the Boy Scout Movement is to mean what it ^mmiss?oner If I scoutmaster who is a respon-
ticipate in such a meeting, is an assistant scout- 0Ught to, the scoutmaster must be subject to the X „Xr nf the trooo mikes Trrangements for
master liable to suspension who takes part of the oflf upon all occasions when reasonable de- ^ Action 2nd his'aSSt^
troop on a separate outingr , ,, , , mands are made. - -• * * 1 •
In o
on a bepardic uuuiigi , mands are made. • *1. oPtinn aT1H undertakes to do something
other words, are the scoutmasters held in the They should als0 be fair enough to realize that oninlon he is insubordinate ^d the
matter of co-operation only s<? far as they find it any scout official of higher rank is going to be SCOutmaster would be fully justified in insisting
convenient or does our work include the idea that reas0nable when they do not find that they can " obfdfen^e on his cart J g
troops and scoutmasters mustjespond to^the rea- conveniently follow the wishes of such officers. up™ both cases where the' issue is raised between
the ranking official and the other lower official,
if there is a refusal on the part of the one hold-
ing the lower position to obey, I do not believe that
it is possible for either the scout commissioner
or scoutmaster always to enforce his order. It
may be necessary for the matter to go up before
the council or the troop committee for adjust-
ment.
In all these matters our practice has been to
sonable plans of the council officers in order to be
considered as having lived up to their pledge of
"loyalty"? Yours cordially,
(Signed) James M. Ropes,
Commissioner.
Sincerely yours,
(
Scout Commissioner.
My dear Mr. Ropes:
Yours very cordially,
(
-),
My dear Mr. Ropes:
Your letter of July 15 brings up a very im xu
I am in receipt of your favor of the 15th instant, portant point. It is almost a platitude to say that seek co-operation in accordance with the organ-
I do not think that any scout official should boy scout training depends upon leadership, but ;zed order 0f positions of authority with the least
unduly exercise his authority unless in case of a ;t ;s 0ne of those platitudes which we need con- 0utward exhibition of arbitrary authority. But
seerious breach of discipline, exclusively for the stantly to keep in mind. We must understand that wben subordinates insist on independent action con-
benefit of the Scout Movement. Authority, as without intimate fellowship and good-will between trary to the plans which are approved by those
you know, in a volunteer organization, can be scout officials which a capable leader among them higher in authority, we believe that it is necessary
misused. I think, however, that when activities must develop, no undertaking can be largely sue- t0 enforce obedience, even if it requires the revo-
for the entire district are planned with a view cessful. cation of the commissions held either by the scout-
that these activities are for the benefit ot the Enlisting the co-operation of scoutmasters and masters or their assistants.
Scout Movement and for the individual scouts, assistant scoutmasters to participate in field days Hoping that my opinion will be of some value
that all officials, scoutmasters and scouts should ;s one 0f the many duties which occasionally com- to yoU) I am>
generously respond. _ missioners must supervise and which as a leader ' '
A spirit of co-operation by the appointment of 0f Scout officials he must make attractive and of
scoutmasters' committees, etc., might solve the diffi- the first importance. At times there are men who,
culty. in spite of the finest leadership, are wilful or Scout Commissioner.
I think that an assistant scoutmaster who wantonly insubordinate. They should be treated
takes part of the troop off on a separate outing kindly, but none the less firmly as offenders and n rnmmJooinnpr•
when a scoutmaster has planned some other activity as disloyal to their organization. Otherwise, the ^edx commissioner. _ .
is displaying a spirit which is not true to scout , unity and coherence of the organization are de- In reply to your very interesting communication
work. A reprimand probably would have its effect, str0yed. July IS, I would say that we have had no ex-
but a repetition might be punished by suspension. j should say a scoutmaster is to participate in perience in the matter of disciplining scoutmasters.
all the general programs arranged by the com- When something was proposed which the scout-
missioner and that all scoutmasters and assistant masters did not seem interested in, we assumed
scoutmasters under him should co-operate as he that the thing must be wrong or at least not
directs in such participation. For an assistant appropriate at that time. The scoutmasters have
scoutmaster to do anything with a part of the been encouraged to take the initiative and to pro-
troop when the scoutmaster, who is leader, directs pose things to the commissioner or the council,
that another thing be done, is obviously wrong. I, personally,. do not think it would be wise to
He should be treated as an offender. With cor- try tp discipline scoutmasters. Of course, there
dial best wishes, Sincerely yours,
( ),
Yours very truly,
(-
Scout Commissioner.
My dear Mr. Ropes:
Your letter of the 15th instant I have read
very carefully and have given the matter con-
siderable thought. The answer, in my judgment,
lies in the fact that the boy scout proposition is
a Movement, and not an organization—that every
one, from the youngest tenderfoot to the senior
member of the National Council, is in it to give
service rather than to form an organization more Dear Sir: _ —
or less similar to the military plan. _ In answer to your letter of the 15th instant scoutmaster and disobeys orders should be dis-
Scout Commissioner.
may be extreme cases and where the majority of
scoutmasters are in favor of certain action all
other scoutmasters should be compelled to accept
majority rule. I do not think that the council
or commissioner should do much planning without
consulting the wishes of the scoutmasters.
In regard to your second paragraph, of course
the assistant scoutmaster who is not loyal to his
-),
Assistant Scout Executive.
In my position as Scout Commissioner I have would say that I have never experienced any diffi- ciplined. That, I think, is a matter for the scout-
never ordered any troop to do anything, and the culty in getting the troops out when the order master and his troop committee to handle.
position of our council is to organize troops to was properly worded. If I_ am going to count Yours very truly
co-operate, impressing upon them the fact that on a man's troop for a certain thing, I send him r
joint rallies and public events are more theirs an order and have never had him fail to obey it.
than ours, and depending upon every troop's loy- If the affair is not of importance I generally invite
alty to maintain them. him to take part, in which case he knows that he
I think a scoutmaster who deliberately refuses may do so or not as he sees fit. Dear Commissioner-
to co-operate is not showing the proper scout Scoutmasters in my district have absolute power j jjave ours 0f" the 15th. I avoid situations
spirit, and unless he can be brought to the proper over their assistants and an assistant scoutmaster gucj1 ag u descr;ije by putting the matter of all
realization of what the Movement means, should is never permitted to take any scouts out with- „enerai rallies or general movements up to the
be gotten rid of m the same way that we would out getting the permission of the scoutmaster each Scoutmasters' Council, because if the Scoutmasters'
get rid of a scout who refuses to live up to the time. This saves # confusion and is necessary be- councii ^as adopted a thing it goes, and the
scout law and oath. cause a chap of eighteen is not competent to take commissioner simply acts in an executive capacity.
Our council, however, does lay down rules which a party of boys to all places. It might be safe
must be followed by all troops and scout officials enough sometimes, but there are times when an
under our jurisdiction, but they are prohibitive older man must be present.
rather than compulsory. In other words, we tell I expect co-operation from the scoutmasters and
Yours very truly,
(-
Scout Commissioner.
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Boy Scouts of America. Scouting, Volume 3, Number 15, December 1, 1915, periodical, December 1, 1915; New York, New York. (https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth282775/m1/13/: accessed May 3, 2024), University of North Texas Libraries, The Portal to Texas History, https://texashistory.unt.edu; crediting Boy Scouts of America National Scouting Museum.