Christian Messenger. (Bonham, Tex.), Vol. 11, No. 31, Ed. 1 Wednesday, October 14, 1885 Page: 2 of 8
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CHRISTIAN MESSENGER
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TEE MESSENGE rp jX8Lualiv <ZfoL* the peo- water,” has a purpose, and is worthy been marked by fashionable aj
WEDNESDAY, OCT. 14, 1885.
THE DEBATE.
suppose John actually dipped the peo-
ple into the soil of the wilderness ?
C. No, of course he did not.
M. Baptizing in Jordan, you say, ev-
idently means dipping into the water
of Jordan; but baptizing in the wilder-
From the day it became any thing I ness does not mean dipping into the
. like generally known that there would soil of the wilderness- I suppose, then
be a debate at Pump Springs between the word m only means dtp when it is
SoBurnett Editorof the Chub- connected with Jordan. Is that your
tian Messenger, and Key. . • C. W-e-1-1,1 think when John baptiz-
Watson, of the South Methodist church, I Jordan he dipped the people
it began to be much talked of. and an Unto t^e water of Jordan,
apparent interest felt in it by those of I — " * -■ v
water,” has a purpose, and is worthy
of sensible people when an immersion
is to be accomplished, but in connec-
tion with sprinkling or pouring such
a position has no reasonable apology.
The act of immersion accounts for the
position and explains it. But, in con-
nection with sprinkling such a position
would be worthy of candidates for an
insane asylum. The full force of this
consideration will be seen when it is
known that Greek literature does not
muj nawi (furnish an example of sprinkling or
it by those of “And the priests that bare the j pouring a person, or any other individ-
every name and order, and even by ar^ 0f the covenant of the Lord stood uai body, living or dead, in water.
Kvr uino nV.lnP.k I n__m/Minr) /)) //ip omA/lsf, n f Jnr- ir__oor» ‘KafnTinrl rvf RinlciTIfT.
CVClJ uaiuv wuu --- V illlV Ul tJLLO Wf ------
many of no order. So, by nine o’clock on dry ground in the midst of Jot-
on the morning of the 30th ult., the Lfa7i” (Josh. iii. 17). Now, if it had been
time appointed for the discussion to be- written, “The priests stood in the
gin, wagons in considerable numbers, j midst of Jordan and baptized the peo-
bringing families and camping equip- pie,” would it not have been plain that fonnjL The actor bi
age, began to roll in. By ten, the hour they dipped the people into the water of, ^ ^ w(Uer.
trxi. /vruvnincr the disCUSSion Jordan ? mnitr 01/nnn hndifij
appointed lor opening the discussion Jordan ?
quite a respectable audience had gath- M .
Ld under the spacious shed, which Any one who will read Mark s words,
stands but a few paces from the pump, “John did baptize in the wilderness,
by means of which abundant water is and preach the baptism of repentance
afforded for the multitudes who annu- for remission of sins” (i. 4), will see
ally gather there on camp-meeting oc- he has reference in a general way
casions. The morning was bri8ht’L the flela of John-s operations as a
“•*> 7
Many examples can be found of sinking,
immersion, and drowning persons, or
bodies, in water, but of sprinkling
them in water, not one example can be
found. The actor baptises (or immers-
and he sprinkles
particular spot where he stood when
administering the act of baptism on
any named occasion. But when he
says: “Jesus came from Nazareth of
Galilee and was baptized of John in
Jordan; and straightway coming up
out of the water he saw the heavens
rent a sunder” (Marki. 9), it is clear that
le is dealing with the definite place in
which .the act of baptism \jras perform-
ed on a specified occasion, and not, as
n verse 4, with the field of John’s min-
.stry as a baptist and preacher. Not
only is this distinction clear, but we
have in addition to this the special
mentionjof Christ’s “coming up out of
the water” showing that he was in the
water when the act of baptism was ad-
ministered. Besides all this, a look at
the Revised Version, or the Greek text
will show that Mark i. 9, reads, “and
was baptized of John into(eis) Jordan.”
(The margin gives “Geeek into”) Now,
when the author of the pamphlet will
find it recorded, not only that John bap-
tized and preached in the wilderness,
but also that he baptized into (eis) the
wilderness; and that his candidates
came up straightway out of the soil, it
will be quite time euough to draw a
parallel between baptizing in the wil-
derness and baptizing in the Jordan.
For baptism was not only uln the Jor-
dan,” uinto the Jordan,” but this was
followed immediately by the baptized
“coming up out of the water.” But
Having shown in our first article that apart from these distinctions, Mr.
■flie baptism “with water”(erc hudati) of effort at comparison is not
Matt. iii. 11, John i. 26, 33 and Acts i. 5 cre(litaiqe to Rim> if he should read in
------7 '
every body almost seemed cheerful.
Bro. Watson is of only medium
height and size, somewhat lean, has the
appearance of being a hard worker, and
able to endure quite an amount of
“hardness as a good soldier of” Meth-
odism. He is a plain, social, and, we
"believe, an honest man. He is almost
entirely free from all the airs and ways
of both the clergyman and the fop.
Though not eloquent, he is a pretty
good speaker, has in him a little streak
of fun, is quick of thought, somewhat
logical, and, on the whole, a pretty good
debater, and is a man of whom his
"brethren have reason to be proud. Bro.
Burnett is too well known to the read-
ers of the Messenger to need a word
from us. The debate throughout was
a pleasant affair, and quite enjoyable,
to say nothing of the good which we
Lave reasons to believe will result from
it. At the close the speakers gave each
other the hand in token of the good
feeling, lave and esteem that they had
for each other.
If we have time, we will write two or
three short articles giving the main po-
sition and arguments of the speakers
on tke questions discussed.
J. R. Jones.
Nashville. Ark.
\
-m 9 ^-
THE ECCLESIASTICAL PUMP
EXAMINED,
X
\
■when literally translated, is baptism
“in water;” and also that an act per-
formed with water, or with fire, or with
any other element, allows the subject
of the act to be in the element, as when
garments are washed with water, or
chaff or trees are burned with fire, by
being put into these elements, we are
no.w ready to have another extract
from the “Pump.” The question being
asked, “Will you give one verse that
says he baptized in water ?”—the dia-
logue proceeds:
C. No, but he went down into the
water, and baptized, then came up out
' of the water. That ought to satisfy
any reasonable man that ||he immersed
in water. Come, lay aside your preju-
dice, and I will convince you that you
are wrong about the mode of baptism.
It is written, “John did baptize in
a daily paper that a certain traveler
was drowned in the wilderness of Ju-
dea, and in another place of another
being drowned in the river Jordan,
would he infer that if the latter was act-
ually in the water of the river, the
other must have been actually in the
soil of the wilderness ? Would he not
conclude that both cases involved the
entrance into water ? Why then reason
otherwise when it is baptism, instead
of drowning, that is in question ?
The proceedure of Mr. Nichols is
also of a very trifling character when
he sneeringly represents immersionists
as holding that “the word in only
means dip when it is connected with
Jordan.” They do not hold that it
means dip under any circumstances.
This is not their claim. They insist
water upon bodies. “In water” has,
in Greek literature, no connection with
sprinkling or pouring. While, there-
fore, neither “in” nor “in water” means
to immerse, they are in perfect keeping
with such action, and have no agree-
ment with the act of putting water upon
an object.
Touching the reference to Joshua iii.
17, it is sufficient to say that certainly
we would understand that they dipped
the people in the Jordan if it was writ-
ten, that “the priests stood in the midst
of the Jordan and baptized the people.”
Why not ? Is not this precisely the
way baptizo is translated in the passage:
“Then went he down and dipped him-
self seven times in the Jordan ?” (See ii.
Kings v. 14). Now, if the word baptize
occurred in Joshua iii. 17, as Mr.
Nichols supposes, will he kindly tell us
why we should not translate it and un-
derstand it precisely as it is translated
in ii. Kings v. 14 ?
But we can settle what John wad do-
ing to the people in Jordan by the
name that he bore. He is called the
“baptist.” Now, if we can learn what
baptistees—the baptist—means, we
can tell what he did in the Jordan.
Any Greek lexicon will inform us on
this point. We quote from three :
Liddell and Scott’s Greek Lexicon
says: “Baptistees, one who dips, a
baptizer.”
Dunbar’s Greek Lexicon says: “Bap-
tistees, he who dips or immerses, a bap-
tizer, a Baptist a.’
Donnegan’s Greek Lexicon says:
“Baptistees, one who immerses or sub-
merges, one who confers baptism.” This
is all these lexicons say as to the
meaning of John in view of what he
was doing in the Jordan. He who, in
spite of these definitions, will still claim
that John may have been sprinkling
water upon people in the river, is not
to be regarded as a man who is apt to
see what ought to be true. Another
and differenf view must be taken of
such an one. There always have been
men who close their eyes that they
may not see. Let the reader of these
been marked by fashionable apathy!
tor the first week. There was much
discouragement over this abscence of
the old-fashioned Methodist fervor. The
Sunday Herald describes how a change
was brought about:
Last Sunday morning love feast was
to be held. Nearly two hundred min-
isters were known to be in Ocean
Grove, and they had been appealed to
from the platform, by the Rev. Dr.
Stokes, to try on this occasion to “get
the blessing.” The inspiring songs of
revivalism were led by a choir of 25
trained voices and a clarionet, which
instrument had an excellently spirited,
effect, besides serving to draw together
an assemblage of fully 6,000 persons.
Eloquent addresses and impassioned,
prayers aroused a degree of enthusiasm
unknown during the previous week.
Still the desired height of fervor was
not yet reached. Suddenly Rev. Albert
Wallace bounded to his feet on a bench
gave a loud shout of “Glory to God !”an<*
impulsively waved his handkerchief
above his head. Instantly thousands of
handkerchiefs were whitening the air
like so many spread wings of doves.
The spectacle was curiously impressive.
It had a wonderful effect upon the con-
gregation. Outcries became at ones
as general as they had previously been
scarce. A wilder meeting has rarely
beeen known. The spirit thus aroused
by the waving of a handkerchief has
lasted through the week. The daily
surf meetings on the sand down by the
shore became really religious gather-
ings instead of the mere curiosities into
which thsy had in a measure degener-
ated. The intensity of the feeling is
indicated by the emotional insanity of
G. H. Rhenton, from Hartford, who
was converted in the handkerchief
meeting. He showed flightiness during
the ensuing days, but this was attrib-
uted to his peculiarly joyous experi-
ence, and a special praise meeting waa
held to celebrate his conversion. From
this he went to the beach seized a child
and threw it as far as he could into the
ocean, intending it to be a sacrificial
offering. A policeman rescued the
young one, and Rhenton was sent home
under guard.
THE FIRST LOAD OF BRICK.
■gr
In the city of Rochester, N. Y., what
is known as the brick church (so-called
because it was the first church built of
brick in that city) has an interesting
history.
Dr. Shaw was the pastor before the
church was erected. The city was grow-
ing rapidly, and the congregation soon
became too large for the old building.
It was resolved to erect a new one.
Meeting after meeting was held, but
nothing done, until even the most hope-
ful were discouraged, and it was feared
the enterprise would be abandoned.
One morning, Dr. Shaw’s door-bell
tbeSe.—Christian Standard.
CONVERTED BY A HAND-
KERCHIEF. }
As early as the days of the Apostles,
it was known that handkerchiefs car-
ried from their persons, possessed a
healing power for physical ill; but it
remained for the 19th century to de-
monstrate the efficacy of this article as
a converting agency. It was at the
Methodist camp-meeting at Ocean
Grove, which has just closed, that the
incident described below transpireck It
ramr. The pastor on opening the door
imvj uv/u uw. v —----------— w* x aw
words see to it that he is not one of found a little boy with a very largo
wheel-barrow containing only two
bricks.
“I have brought you these bricks,**
he said “to help build the new
church.”
The bricks were dumped on the
ground. Dr. Shaw thanked the boyt
put on his hat, and as he called upon
one and another of the people, he said:
“The church will be built, the first
load of brick is already c“
ground.”
All took fresh courage as the
was told, and soon a large and
f ul church was erected. The lit.
first load of bricks was after all,
help.— Church and Home.
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Burnett, Thomas R. Christian Messenger. (Bonham, Tex.), Vol. 11, No. 31, Ed. 1 Wednesday, October 14, 1885, newspaper, October 14, 1885; Bonham, Texas. (https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth914238/m1/2/: accessed July 16, 2024), University of North Texas Libraries, The Portal to Texas History, https://texashistory.unt.edu; crediting Bonham Public Library.