Christian Messenger. (Bonham, Tex.), Vol. 8, No. 26, Ed. 1 Wednesday, July 12, 1882 Page: 2 of 8
This newspaper is part of the collection entitled: Fannin County Area Newspaper Collection and was provided to The Portal to Texas History by the Bonham Public Library.
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CHRISTIAN MESSENGER.
THE MESSENGER.
WEDNESDAY, JULY 12, 1S62.
SMITH- WILLIAMS DEBA TE.
Deo. Burnett*:
The debate between Bro. A. B.
Smith and Dev. J. K. P. V* i’liams
has come off; the field fought
over, the victory won and the
cause of Christ triumphant.
That your readers may know
the sequel pf this discussion, and
what brought it forth, I will first
state that Bro. Smith came to
personal experience, etc., etc.
While it is true that the Baptists
could not deny, as they believed
and taught all of these errors, yet
they took it terribly to heart when
told of them. .
In this discussion we claim a
great victory. No less than eight
or ten Baptists have been con-
vinced of the error of their way.
The Methodists in sympathy and
all those of the world were with
ms, evidently showing that the
truth was having its desired ef-
fect, and the good seed sown in
this diseusssion will some day
Denison some time ago and com- j briuS for,h fruit to the Uonor aud
menced a series of lectures, aud Z^ry of God. During the drscusn
while there I invited him to come
and lecture at one of my preach-
ing points, and where also the
Baptists were having regular
preaching once a month alter-
nately with myself and the Meth-
odists. Bro. Smith came, and for
a whole week drew large und at-
tentive audiences to hear him.
One evening, after he had lectur-
ed upon . Solomon’s temple,' in
which he demolished the Baptist
succession question and th*i twi-
light kingdom, a Baptist minister
by the name of J. K. P. Williams,
* after the audjence had been dis-
missed, called the house to order
and gave out that he was going to
preach next day at a neighboring
church and at which time he
would “set up the kingdom in all
ages.” The night following, Bro.
Smith received a written challenge
from'this same gentleman to a
public joint discussion. After
consulting with myself and a few
others, Bro. Smith accepted his
challenge, provided it embraced
the characteristic features of the
two churches. In due time the
debate commenced and lasted for
seven days, with profound inter-
est upon the part of all present.
Bro. Smith was forced into the
j'fiirmative during the first part of
. the debate, and according to all
unprejudiced minds set forth the
characteristic features of the
church of Christ in a very able
end masterly manner, in such a
way as to leave an impression in
this community long to be re-
membered. During the first two
or three- days the Baptists seemed
to be quite jubilant, especially
while their man was dealing out.
“Ray venom” against what he was
pleased to call “Campbellism.”
He went so far as to accuse us of
preaching a “water salvation,” of
. haring no faith or morals, not
believing in prayer, aud receiving
Universalists and allowing them
to preach in our congregations.
It is needless for me to say that
nil this slang and abuse was ably
/refuted—not by abuse, but with
truth and ccanmon sense. When
the Baptist man had to take the
. lead the scales turned, and for
* lour days the Baptist church met
• with one cf the m©9t severe expo-
sitions I ever heard. Bro. Smith’s
speech against the idea of the
kingdom being set up before pen-
/teco&t was a grand success, and
' from which the Baptist man never
could rally. While in the nega-
tive, Bro. Smith brought up over
' twenty-five prominent errors pe-
culiar to the Baptist church,
among which were: The twilight
kingdom, church successior, name
Missionary Baptist church, close
communion, total depravity, the
final perseverance of the saints,
ecclesiastical polygamy, voting
siou, and while the Baptist man
was hard pressed, he threatened
Bro. Smith with D. B. Ray. So
wo may expect to bear from the
“renowned Ray” at an early time.
After Bro. Smith had demol-
ished every face of Baptistism,
and seeming to add insult to inju-
ry, he turned to the Baptists in
his closing speecli and exhorted
them to repentance, asking them
to leave their frail craft and come
and take passage on the old ship
of zion. Bro. S. is a stranger
among us, but he certainly knows
how to handle the Baptists a3 well
as the gospel.
If the Baptists are not satisfied
with the result of this discussion,
and want to try it again, 1 am au-
thorized to inform them that Bro.
Smith's address is Denison, Texas.
Yours for the triumph of the
gospel of Christ,
C. S. Burns.
Denison, Texas, Juno 29, 1882. .
WORK WHILE IT IS DA Y.
I am a new comer to Texas, and
having heard so much about the
brotherhood of this country I, of
course, expected to find the fami-
ly of tlio Lord zealously engaged
in disseminating the bread ©f life.
In this I htive been somewhat
mistaken; and that a few sugges-
tions would be in order, is the
aim of this epistle.
On last Lord’s day I met Bro.
E. F. Bearden, of Blackjack, at
Donelton; and from the tone of
his sermon, he has gathered his
knowledge at Jerusalem. He is
the only preacher I have heard in
Texas, and his doctrine is. certain-
ly redeemable at par at the coun-
ter of heaven. He preached
enough of the Word (if received)
to break up every sectarian camp
on earth and rob Satan of his
chief glory—division—and save
all who heard him.
The fault, then, is not in the
preacher, nor . in the things
preached, but somewhere else. In
my fow trips I find the zeal is not
in\the family. I have not found
the prejudice to combat as strong
as elsewhere. The people appear
anxious and willing to hoar. In
all my appointments and discours-
es, the body of the neighborhood
were in attendance and listened
well to the things spoken. I learn
this is true in a majority of places
heard from. 1 hear of preachers
in many places, not far away, yet
I hear of but little preaching.
These preachers should be given
a chance to tell what they know,
or rise and explain why they do
not. Too much carelessnes on the
part of the people, who are care-
less, has been imbibed by the
heralds of the cross, and the re-
sult might be that somebody may
The preacher is silent and
people dying:—dying how? In
ignorance, superstition and negli-
gence. Yes, negligence; although
the apostle, Paul, asks, “how shall
we escape if we neglect so great
salvation?” ’Brethren, there is a
•point where responsibility begins
as well as where it. ends, and God
grant that none.of us will be held
amenable in that day for having
failed to enlighten the “nations”
concerning the great pathway of
life. Brethren, we must,awake,
e? ___
we must be up. and doing^ We
must preach the Word. The
great majority of preachers whom
I know are men of very limited
meaus, and many congregations
and brethren are pretty full-hand-
ed. What reason can be rendered
why a kind of co-operative effort
can not be made in joint and in-
dividual capacity to hold up the
hands of these preachers in vari-
ous localities now destitute of the
word, that a protracted meeting
be held for such people aud give
them a chance? When the hands
of Moses were held up, Israel
prevailed, but when down, Israel
was in confusion. There is a much
greater lesson taught here than
many of us are willing to learn
aud practice. See how it is in our
fair state. Wherever the Lord’s
plan is practical, union, harmony
and order prevail, and that con-
gregation is published as in good
working 'order and alive; but
where man’s plan prevails, con-
fusion iB apparent and the great
life work and desire is evil spo-
ken of. My main work this year
is among opponents, but my part
must be performed and the Lord
will take care of the other. All
the saints have a preaching work
to perform, and if we can not do
it by words, we must put somq at
it who can and will do it by words,
for the Lord’s plan is that the'
work shall be done by words. We
surely do wrong in letting our gi-
ants, like Bro. Caskey and others
whom I know through the ptess,
lie idly by and, their shields of
faith rust through inactivity, for
want of the common necessaries
of life for those whom they leave
at home. Produce and the things
a family needs will move preachers
as quick as money, if it hurts us
to part with Cesar’s pelf. If you
don’t believe it, try it. Hunt and
Raines counties have very few
congregations, and no preparation
for the better... The people will
listen if they get a chance. Who
is to give them a chance? My
health for some years has been
such that I can not, even if my
pecuniary circumstances did not
preclude me. My wife has been
sick for eight years, and *one fif-
teen-years-old boy and myself are
the only chance. But, brethren,
there are men who will joyfully
undertake to dethrone Satan in
these counties. Can not brothren
in various localities express them-
selves through the Messenger,
that we may see what efforts can
be expended in destitute places
by the time protracted meetings
begin? This is in kindness atid
for the love of the unmixed word
of truth. J. W. Harris.
Lone Oak, Texas.
THE FOUNDATION.
become responsible for abused
members into the church, orticletffopportunities. “Repentance and
cf faith, changing the order of
heaven to repentance before faith,
divine call to the Baptist priest-
the efficacy of wa-
it damnation,
R*t., D. D., «U.,)
remission of sms is to be preach-
ed in His name among all nations,
beginning at Jerusalem.” Fearful
language! It is not to be prayed
for, sung for, or any other meth-
od, but the Lord says, preached!
\
Every system has its foundation.
Judaism was bnsed on the truth
there is one God. Christianity
on the truth “Jesus Christ is the
son of God.” While this founda-
tion remains firm, Christianity has
a “sure foundation.” The founda-
tion of sectarianism is net this
grand truth, but something radi-
callydifferent. It is this^j^kll
men by nature are totally
the ed.” Methodism, Baptistism,
Presbyterianism, all rest on this
basis. Unless this foundation is
true; the system framed upon it
can not be true. If this founds
tion were destroyed these systems
would at once sink into nothing-
ness. This is proved by this fact:
Get one of the sectarians to dis-
believe it and he has no more use
for the theory of direct spiritual op-
eration,the word of God a dead let-
ter, etc.
But important as this founda-
tion is to the parties holding it, yet
only a small per cent, of them un-
derstand it, or would endorse it
if they understood it. Men preach
it, but do not explain it.
Then, what is “hereditary total
depravity?” Hereditary means
inherited, handed from parent to
child.
Total means “entire.” Deprav-
ity, corruptness. Then if all men
are totally depraved, there is no
good at all in them, and if it is
“hereditary” they were born in
that condition and are no more re-
sponsible for it than they are for
having two ears, eyes, hands and
feet! They could just as reason-
ably be condemned for not having
three eyes, as for not possessing
some good qualities—they could
not help it! But if they are
utterly devoid of good qualities,
then they are as bad as the devil.
He can not be more than totally
depraved. Upon this theory
every father and mother are but
the parents of devils! The sweet-
faced infant, playing upon its
mother’s knee is nothing but the
earthly house in which a devil
dwells!! This is “total, hereditary
depravity” in its true light. There
is not a mother in this land who
will not give up “total depravity,”
rather than admit it of her dar-
ling babe?. Nor is there in all
this land a man who preaches that
doctrine, but wliat 1 can make
“take to the brush” by * driving
this doctrine down on him individ-
ually. .They won’t admit that
they themselves ever were as bad
as the devil! Hence they deny
the doctrine! They will also deny
their own arguments from the
Scriptures when applied to them-
selves. They quote Rom. 1: 21-32.
3:10-18. Col. 5:18:21.
They argue the passages teach
total depravity. Admit it for the
sake of the argument. Then read
the long list of sins enumerated
in those passages. Then torn to
him who affirms,-* and before an
audienco proceed thus: Paul men-
tions “adultery.” You put it in
your arguments for total depravity.
“All men,” you affirm, “by na
are totally depraved.” That
includes you. “Did you ever com-
mit murder?” He can’t stand
that! He will say, “no.” “Did
you ever want to murder any
one?” “No,” he will answier!!
“Then by your logie you lacked
that much of being “totally de-
praved!” *
“Let’s try you on another point.
Did you ever steal?” “No, sir!”
“Ever want to steal?” “No, no.”
“Then by four points you are too
short for your own argument!”
“Sir, you have denied ‘totaf de-
pravity,’ you have surrendered
your proposition!!”
Thus you may proceed through
the whole list of sins and upon
each one drive the question on
him “Did you do that?” and to
many of the points he will answer,
“No, sir!” He can’t and won’t
stand it. He will give up the doc-
trine, rather than confess guilt on
several points, or even to admit
baring possessed the desire which
leads to the sin. He is willing to
pile this load on others—tell them
they are “totally depraved,Vguilty
in “all” these points; but when
driven down on their own dear
selves their cry is: “I pray thee
have me excused!” Having shown
what total, hereditary depravity is,
and that when understood and ex-
posse d its adherents will not admit
it of themselves, I now propose to
show that if total, hereditary de-
pravity be true, “regeneration
renewal, or the “new birth” is an
impossibility, for there is nothing
to regenerate, nothing to save, and
consequently Jesus died in vain.
These positions I shall develop in
another article. W. L. Thurman.
DO NOT^APOLOGIZE.
If a preacher wishes to make a
good impression in a tiue gospel
sense, he should at once proceed
to his subject and . present his
thoughts thereon, if he has any.
It is time worse than wasted to oc-
cupy from five to thirty minutes
in ' needless apologies; fc*
about himself, instead of pr<
ing Christ. If he wishes to suc-
ceed or reach any particular poin t,
ho should go straight along to it.
It will not pay to walk five miles
around, when by going two miles
through he can make the trip on
better road. It is much like build-
ing a porch and then attaching a
house to it. The poicli would be
in the way of the rearing of the
house. It is better and more prof-
itable, and more pleasing to the
people, to plunge at once into
your subject, and make the best
of it, before you cumber the mind
of the audienee and your* own
mind with thoughts that have no
connection with tk$ subject.
j J, M. Norwood.
ANOTHER TENT.
If preaching in “/a tent is
unpardonable sin, I have a
temptation to commit it. The
brethren in this section arc rais-
ing mpans to get a tent for me to
hold nieetings in all the country
round about. We desire
read this to send by mail $1:'
more to my address. ^We
wish the brethren to discuss
we simply want those in favor of
it to send $1.00 or more,
those opposed to send $2.00 for
the Messenger to be sent to
one not taking it Address
Laurence W. Scott,
Sulphur Springs, Texas.
—
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Burnett, Thomas R. Christian Messenger. (Bonham, Tex.), Vol. 8, No. 26, Ed. 1 Wednesday, July 12, 1882, newspaper, July 12, 1882; Bonham, Texas. (https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth913836/m1/2/?q=music: accessed July 17, 2024), University of North Texas Libraries, The Portal to Texas History, https://texashistory.unt.edu; crediting Bonham Public Library.